Pakistan Gets F16 -Blk70/72

[Hasssan]

China needs Pakistan to relieve pressure from US containment in the Pacific. There are rumblings on both sides, but the ties cannot falter right now due to one common factor at hand, India. Had Delhi not embraced Washington so openly and brazenly, Sino-Pak ties might actually be in trouble today, but thanks to Delhi's haste, there's a cold, rational reason for Sino-Pak cooperation.

Can you elaborate on the rumblings please?

 

[PewPew]

Can you elaborate on the rumblings please?

The general public on our side is increasingly uneasy about the Uigher situation. The general public in China thinks Pakistan is poor and needy. Basically, those are the rumblings. Both have their point, but neither side is going to alter the reality that India and US are problems, and now they're one problem.

 

[Mastankhan]

China needs Pakistan to relieve pressure from US containment in the Pacific. There are rumblings on both sides, but the ties cannot falter right now due to one common factor at hand, India. Had Delhi not embraced Washington so openly and brazenly, Sino-Pak ties might actually be in trouble today, but thanks to Delhi's haste, there's a cold, rational reason for Sino-Pak cooperation.

Hi

Dehli can do what ever it wants to---. Sino / pak ties will stay---because india and china are declared enemies--- an INHERENT camaraderie that pakistan has for china---india can never show it---. There is always deceit in the indian character that can never be changed---.

 

[Cookie Monster]

We probably thought the same about the US back in the 80s when we were getting our F16s. You never know when and how things could get sour with the Chinese. We need to always work under the impression that in whatever war, we will fight alone. Any ally that shows up is a bonus.

Right that is a good strategy but there is a major difference here. US and China need to be looked at separately bcuz both face vastly different circumstances and both have their different political geostrategic goals.

US tilt toward India to balance a rising China is the cause of leaving Pak aside...added to that are factors like
- Pak is an additional obstacle that keeps India from being able to fully focus on China
- After USSR left Afghanistan and broke into pieces(hence didn't pose as much a threat)...Pak's importance as an ally went way down on the list.
- Although Pak and Israel haven't officially and DIRECTLY ever fought against each other...there is a certain unease. Israel most likely does consider Pak a potential threat...add to that Pak's nuclear weapons and u can see why they would lobby against Pak(and naturally lobby for India then). Israel has a very strong lobby in the US btw.

In contrast China already has a long list of enemies or potential enemies. Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam, India to name a few. There are also potential enemies(or countries either allied with the US or uneasy about China's claims in SCS) like South Korea and Phillipines. In the big scheme of things there's also US and its allies(western European countries, Australia, etc.) that China has to contend with. So China needs all the allies it can get...especially one that would balance India out...and create an additional front for India to worry about(hence dividing Indian forces). With that u can see how China needs Pak just like Pak needs China.

All of that above will hold true for a long time unless somehow one can wave a magic wand and make India and China allies...which isn't going to happen bcuz both have their goals in the region that clash with each other.

In conclusion u r comparing apples and oranges by comparing China and US in terms of their alliance with Pak. Still however it would be best if Pak prepared for a potential war with India as if it would fight alone.

This has nothing to do with the radar thing that was being discussed earlier. For developing key technologies like that...Pak is going to need help(whether from China or some other country willing to help). Pak has very limited resources and lags behind in almost everything. If Pak decided to develop everything by itself...Pak would end up with worse projects than Tejas, Kaveri, Rustom, etc. Lots of money would be thrown for R&D only to come up with things a few decades later that are already obsolete at that point in time.

 

[Usama]

It is evident that we are moving towards bipolar world sytem. US and its allies vs China and its allies. Although there is some abiguity on where countries stand due to the overlaping and some places conflicting national interests but i think the game will become clear with time. Nations will take position on where they stand. Pakistan will be in the Chinese camp without a doubt and India has chosen US.
Who will come out on top, only time will tell but as of now it seems that China has the upwards momentum.
An interesting talk.


Regards,
Usama

 

[Caprxl]

Sometimes you make do with what you have and what PAF has is JF-17, however F-16 is also a great aircraft for dog fights and air combat roles.

Then the final shopping list is as follows ..

1) F-16 New old all upgraded to Block 70/72
2) F-17 Block 3 & Beyond. . NG level ... well there is nothing to stop us what we can do with this toy ..
2) J-xx &
3) Project Azm

 

[Khan-e-Khanaan]

Then the final shopping list is as follows ..

1) F-16 New old all upgraded to Block 70/72
2) F-17 Block 3 & Beyond. . NG level ... well there is nothing to stop us what we can do with this toy ..
2) J-xx &
3) Project Azm

Of this list only JF-17 Block 3 is fully tangible. Azm is a long way off and there nothing concrete about Vipers and Js.

 

[AliYusuf]

Of this list only JF-17 Block 3 is fully tangible. Azm is a long way off and there nothing concrete about Vipers and Js.

Even in the worst case scenario ... apart from the JF-17 I see at least two of the other prospects bearing fruit in the future.
But that is my humble opinion.

 

[TomCat]

Even in the worst case scenario ... apart from the JF-17 I see at least two of the other prospects bearing fruit in the future.
But that is my humble opinion.

What are the prospects? J-15 and vipers or something else entirely?

 

[AliYusuf]

What are the prospects? J-15 and vipers or something else entirely?

1) J-15 or any other twin engined J-XX that is for sure
2) Project AZM (Question here would be when rather than whether).

There is a good probability that the F-16 Block-70/72 will materialize. But looking at the source, i.e. the USA, and it's shifts and turns on statements about Pakistan lately ... I will be cautious on counting those chicks before they hatch.

 

[TomCat]

1) J-15 or any other twin engined J-XX that is for sure
2) Project AZM (Question here would be when rather than whether).

There is a good probability that the F-16 Block-70/72 will materialize. But looking at the source, i.e. the USA, and it's shifts and turns on statements about Pakistan lately ... I will be cautious on counting those chicks before they hatch.

AZM is too far away, i don't even have interest in it right now due to the belief that PAF will go slow on AZM, will proceed with the design and config BUT most importantly watch the innovations from USA, France, Italy, China, Turkey slowly that happens in next 5-8 years in terms of avionics, aerodynamics, stealth and possibly more light on 6th gen from US side. Then we will by 2030 expect Low Rate Initial Production or just the 2nd/3rd Prototype which will be made on the principle of F-16 to be highly adaptable and upgradable in long term with the possibility of planned MLUs in future. But pre 2025, we must invest more on procurement of off-the shelf platforms to form a formidable force for at least a decade (till 2035). We might even get our hands on a couple of squadrons of J-20 God knows by then. Since AZM is planned to be the mainstay fight of future, to replace the F-16s, we must give it the best time, Research & planning it can get.

 

[AliYusuf]

But pre 2025, we must invest more on procurement of off-the shelf platforms to form a formidable force for at least a decade (till 2035).

That will occur, but maybe not the way we are expecting ... and then again may happen exactly the way we are expecting them to happen. We in a way represent the average ordinary people (on the net) who are not privy to many facts, issues and objectives that are not apparent in the public domain. That is why members like @Khafee are so significant for us, who can share some of the non-vital facts like he so generously has been over the past couple of months. So the best way, in my humble opinion, is to wait for the events to unfold and have the hope that the things are headed the right way.

 

[HRK]

@Khafee ...... bro plz check with you source as it seems F-16 blk-70/72 deal also fell through as LM has increased the price and Americans are not releasing some of the critical technology(ies) related to blk-70/72

This is the latest rumor / hearsay / unconfirmed report (whatever one would like to call it), I came to know about

 

[AliYusuf]

That will occur, but maybe not the way we are expecting ... and then again may happen exactly the way we are expecting them to happen. We in a way represent the average ordinary people (on the net) who are not privy to many facts, issues and objectives that are not apparent in the public domain. That is why members like @Khafee are so significant for us, who can share some of the non-vital facts like he so generously has been over the past couple of months. So the best way, in my humble opinion, is to wait for the events to unfold and have the hope that the things are headed the right way.

Even a fully equipped J-15 will also add a lot of muscle to the PAF.
Especially because the PAF are a well trained combat savvy fighting force. They know how to make use of what they have. Better than their adversaries.

 

[Khafee]

Then the final shopping list is as follows ..

1) F-16 New old all upgraded to Block 70/72
2) F-17 Block 3 & Beyond. . NG level ... well there is nothing to stop us what we can do with this toy ..
2) J-xx &
3) Project Azm

1. Zulu
2. AW101
3. Vipers
4. J-15
5. EF - Maybe
6. AZM