Pakistan shot down 2 IAF jets

[Joe Shearer]

bad news for the Indian military big time. I also heard the pilot refused to mention his basic information but a couple hours later the Indian media claimed where he lived in India, his mission etc.
however continue the good work Pakistani brothers, and I hope this makes JF-17 even more successful in service. I can not wait to see JF-17 in EAF markings

By the way, while the pilot correctly refused to let out any information other than name, rank and number, the Indian media traced him home and sought to meet his family members. They, correctly, refused. There was no mention of his mission, but that he was captured in POK leaves little doubt as to what it was, and certainly no journalist even half awake would have made any but a sensible guess about it.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Pilot emptied his pistol on locals. He was first spotted by a 70 years old man and engaged by him first.
As a response Indian pilot start shooting without even clarifying, if he fell in India or Pakistan.
After his gun was empty locals apprehended him, but i think at the same time Pak Army arrived and he was not harmed beyond a single punch.
He surely does not qualify to be a prisoner of war.
Following law of Pak state rules.... locals who were shot at, can register a report for shooting incidence against Indian pilot, and than he has to face the local courts for some time. Let's see what happens to him, but Pakistan has long history of returning Indian soldiers and pilots in good faith.

It is understandable that an over-excited fanboy paints a wildly coloured picture, but the reality was different. From the pilot's account, he touched down, and asked where he was. On getting evasive replies, he asked who the Indian PM was, to which he got the right answer, not surprising considering the amount of publicity the Indian PM has attracted, for better or for worse. Still suspicious, he raised a slogan, and saw from the reaction that he was in trouble. He then held off the crowd, firing shots in the air, while they threw rocks at him, injuring him.

The 70 year old man belongs to another pilot's landing and touching down; the old man states very clearly that the second pilot was severely injured and was taken off to hospital, but Pakistani sources after the first admission of two parachutes, immediately went silent and clamped down about the second pilot, or about the second plane (in contrast to their efficiency and swiftness with regard to the first plane, the loss reported by the IAF). It is this old man's encounter that no Pakistani wishes to address.

 

[Joe Shearer]

'Visuals of cover of AARAM missile fired from Pakistani F-16 aircraft found near the LoC in India '

This is now non-news. It does not suit the story.

 

[Joe Shearer]

according to other sources, the AIM-120 that was founded was proven to be false, as the serial number of the AIM-120 was reported to be sold to Taiwan a couple years ago and there is no way Taiwan would help Pakistan with them being close to China.

And according to yet other sources, it was found to be numbered in line with the numbering of a lot sold to Pakistan directly. Details of the number and the contract number and connection with the missile numbering were published, so it is no secret.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Don't believe Indians, they lie by tons.
All of their lies will be uncovered in matter of few days and with simple logic.
Air battle happened WVR, so their was no need to use BVR missiles.

With logic like this, there is no need for air forces, a few fanboys on either side will do. The MiG21 fired an R73; what should the F16 have fired?

There has already been statement from Lockheed Martin that all PAF F-16 are accounted for and non is missing todate.

Interesting that Lockheed Martin officially denied having made any such statement, and called the social media source a fake one.

ISPR has stated that no F-16 were used.
Indian planes were brought down by jF-17
AIM can't be used wih jF-17

Since AIM was used, as the wreckage proved, what does that show? That the ISPR lied?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Two pilots ejecting on Indian side of Kashmir. Confirming a two seater jet is hit
Video taken from Pakistan side.

Both were reported landing on the POK side. DG ISPR reported that two Indian pilots had been shot down. Within hours, the story changed; now only one Indian pilot had been shot down and was in custody.

Considering the sanctimonious smirking with which it was said that on the Indian side, the entire population was hostile, would such sensational news as two pilots parachuting down not have been all over the media?

On the previous day, a MiL went down due to mechanical mishap. Pictures of that crash show clearly how the local people had crowded around the site; there is no restriction on movement of civilians, and no restriction on journalists, so any sensational development as reported by Pakistani fanboys (the establishment has quietly dropped the matter) might be expected to have been splashed all over the front page. It wasn't.

Draw your own conclusions.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Jackasses who started jumping up and down didn't realise that numbers on the missiles when checked correctly tallied with shipment to Pakistan, and that what is being reported is fake news. Like the fake news relating to the identity of the killed pilot, that has been traced back to a twitter source in Britain of Pakistani origin.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Batch (contract) block number and serial number are two different things. It can be found in topi thread itself.

Wreckage analysis from premature Pakistan (army) photographing what they though was another Mig 21 (and combined those pictures with the other one acknowledged by India) is proving a nice gold mine now (as there are other part numbers there).

Anyways lot more things will be cleared up after fog of war has settled (social media + legacy media are just so toxic tbh).

Pakistan went all in with information war just like it did in 1971 and 1999....and in the end the results will speak for themselves.

It was fun to see Zaid Hamid screaming and crying about the pilot to not be released (esp after Imran Khan said India threatened missile attacks and that prompted the "defusing"). Nothing has been given by India for his return.

Also fun to see that Pakistan minister (sheikh rasheed) (against ISPR narrative) admit to everyone that a madrassa has been destroyed in Balakot area.

Also fun to see how Pakistan changed its story from 2 captured indian pilots to just one. Likely they again assumed the Pakistani pilot that crashed as another Indian aircraft initially. The witness corroboration on both sides speaks to this too.

Precisely.

And now there is a funereal hush about the second pilot.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Quoting from source i trust:

American Manufacturer of F-16 Fighter Jet Believes No Pakistani Aircraft was Downed

Reportedly Lockheed Martin has expressed its annoyance /displeasure over the factually incorrect statement by Indian FO Spokesperson regarding alleged shooting down of Pak F16 by Indian Mig 21 on 27 Feb 19.The US enterprise has termed it outrageous and disrespect to the sophistication and repute of this Avionics excellence.The company also claims that since all F16s on Pakistani inventory are well counted for hence it is obvious that the story is concocted for political gains at the cost of F16's reputation world over.The company therefore reserves the right to claim damages for the likely loss they may suffer.

Again, an official press release by Lockheed Martin flatly denies this. Why do you feel this desperate urge to reproduce fake social media vapourings?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Bring some facts.... people statements is subjected to their confirmation and i heard totally different words than you quoted. Of course those were in Urdu. So again, no need to bring something in discussion, which we require to translate.
FYI, In Pakistan all can object to any one, that's how we function here nothing new and brings no relief to Indians.
What is clear that Indians are banking totally on Imran Khan's discretion, who once had many Indian girl friends. He has the potential to release all of Indian airforce!

Unfortunately, Imran's Indian, British and Pakistani girl friends aside, for him to release all of the Indian Air Force, someone has to go to the trouble of capturing all of the Indian Air Force. If you keep counting off on both sides, we will need an Indian Imran Khan to release all of the Pakistan Air Force. You do remember, I hope, that your own ex-chief was an Indian POW who was released?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Indian claim as i understand is that F-16 shot Indian SU-30 with AIM, before getting hit by it self by mig 21.

Where's the wreckage of F-16?

On the Pakistan side, being hurriedly loaded onto a Pakistan Army truck when last seen. Want to see a video?

 

[Joe Shearer]

First of all I don't take you credible to begin with...given all your conspiracy theories that IRGC etc... is after you personally. @yavar and others see it all too many times.

There is reason why even your compatriot mods slap you really hard when the word "Shia" is even just mentioned in a thread somewhere....and you leave in a huff for some months from there.

Maybe while you and I think he's left in a huff, he's actually flying F16s somewhere? Ever thought of that?

OK, I'm joking.

We all know he was flying the Bat Plane.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Pakistan has always lost a won field war on table.
That has been always the case in history and is going to happen again.
There can't be deescalation if any one of the army is positioned at front lines with war posture.
Every night shelling at civilians.
Kashmir has been a hot border from times immemorial. This time they decided to use IAF after 50 years.

Not very strong at arithmetic, are you? It's twenty years.

 

[Joe Shearer]

india claims the wreckage did not fall in indian territory, could indeed be a false/wrong statement, but on the other hand, i have not once heard pakistan denying they lost an aircraft in the incident.
seems a bit odd that if the incident india claims to have happened but is false, is then not refuted by islamabad...

Sherlock Holmes - by Arthur Conan Doyle: Silver Blaze.

Read up on the dog that did not bark at night.

 

[Joe Shearer]

ISPR stated: F-16 were not used, and Indian claims of shooting F-16 are false and there are no reports of any hit Pakistani fighter jet.
This is ISPR press briefing after Pak retaliation, but it's in Urdu. statement above is at time stamp 05:30...@

In reality, there's only one wreckage on Pakistan side and that's of mig-21
With shoddy paint job of AIM-120C5. Indian military establishment, has gone too far in it's their lies. They just want to have a face saving in-front of their own people.
India has legacy of denial and cover-ups. They are infamous for fake encounters with local Kashmiris.
If their was no captured Indian pilot, Indians would deny loss of any jet from their sides.
If their were no pictures taken by locals on Indian side, there would be no proof of any second hit on Indian side but Indian establishment is still in denial.
There are videos of 2 ejection from cockpit, one injured pilot we have seen and second roasted body we have also seen. This all through social media.

If the second roasted body was Indian, the Pakistan authorities would have returned it for suitable interment. Why have they smuggled it to an undisclosed grave? It's looking more and more peculiar.