Prepare for war, says the Chinese Army | World Defense

Prepare for war, says the Chinese Army

Lieutenant

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
1,881
Reactions
2,421 25 0
"China will take strong countermeasures if House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi visits the Taiwan region, said Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian today".
 

GRANNY001

Professional
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
324
Reactions
285 25 0
Country
Canada
Location
Canada
"China will take strong countermeasures if House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi visits the Taiwan region, said Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian today".
Don't understand China's stance. Other HIGH US reps have gone to China before with little or nothing coming from China, so.... what's the big deal now?:confused:
 

MominKhan

MEMBER
Joined
May 19, 2020
Messages
103
Reactions
209 15 0
Country
Pakistan
Location
USA
Chinese see an opportunity. US economy is going into recession due to the war with Russia. Time to create new red lines in Taiwan and Ladakh.
 

Bayernulan

MEMBER
Joined
Jun 7, 2022
Messages
55
Reactions
14 0 0
Country
Germany
Location
China
Don't understand China's stance. Other HIGH US reps have gone to China before with little or nothing coming from China, so.... what's the big deal now?:confused:
1st. Taiwan is a province of China = so if e.g. Pelosi (3rd highest position in the US government) want's to visit China on a private or an official visit it is international custom to get permission from the respective foreign government or an invitation.
2nd. No other high representatives of the US government have ever visited Taiwan - being a senator or congressman is not necessarily being a (cabinet member/state secretary) or a member of the US government (administration).
3rd. the US is a signatory to the agreed 1 country 2 systems policy - as such one needs permission or an invitation.
4th. Biden's recent statement "if Taiwan is attacked, the US will support Taiwan") is in clear breach with (see 3rd) and a clear provocation (almost a declaration of war) towards Beijing.

Beijing has no reasons (same people and mostly relatives) and therefore will IMO, never attack Taiwan (the people on Taiwan are also aware that declaring independence means war) so polls in regards to "wanting" to be independent and "declaring independence" are two entirely different things. (off course only the "wanting" polls are conducted and being shown by the USA and others).

Naturally Beijing will never allow for an independent Taiwan - that is then US controlled and would automatically bring the US Armed Forces to within 5-100km of Mainland China. (totally insane for the USA to have such "visions/plans").
Therefore an attempt by the USA or anyone else to "provoke" a declaration of independence by Taiwan - "is playing with fire" since it will force Beijing to take military action towards Taiwan (which in turn will cause Taiwanese and Mainland China civilian and military losses).

Since the province of Taiwan is not a UN recognized sovereign state, then what is a Nancy Pelosi doing there? even without an invitation from Beijing? Clearly to give/show support by the US administration's attempts to provoke/instigate the provincial Taiwan government to pursue it's path towards independence.

The same playbook that the US has used in regards to an independent Ukraine (latest since 2006) is now being used in regards to Taiwan. - that's all.
 
Last edited:

Scorpion

THINK TANK: SENIOR
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
3,865
Reactions
3,194 56 0
Country
Saudi Arabia
Location
Saudi Arabia
Nancy should back off, there is no reason to complicate things right now. What is she getting out of this trip anyway?
 

GRANNY001

Professional
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
324
Reactions
285 25 0
Country
Canada
Location
Canada
1st. Taiwan is a province of China = so if e.g. Pelosi (3rd highest position in the US government) want's to visit China on a private or an official visit it is international custom to get permission from the respective foreign government or an invitation.
2nd. No other high representatives of the US government have ever visited Taiwan - being a senator or congressman is not necessarily being a (cabinet member/state secretary) or a member of the US government (administration).
3rd. the US is a signatory to the agreed 1 country 2 systems policy - as such one needs permission or an invitation.
4th. Biden's recent statement "if Taiwan is attacked, the US will support Taiwan") is in clear breach with (see 3rd) and a clear provocation (almost a declaration of war) towards Beijing.

Beijing has no reasons (same people and mostly relatives) and therefore will IMO, never attack Taiwan (the people on Taiwan are also aware that declaring independence means war) so polls in regards to "wanting" to be independent and "declaring independence" are two entirely different things. (off course only the "wanting" polls are conducted and being shown by the USA and others).

Naturally Beijing will never allow for an independent Taiwan - that is then US controlled and would automatically bring the US Armed Forces to within 5-100km of Mainland China. (totally insane for the USA to have such "visions/plans").
Therefore an attempt by the USA or anyone else to "provoke" a declaration of independence by Taiwan - "is playing with fire" since it will force Beijing to take military action towards Taiwan (which in turn will cause Taiwanese and Mainland China civilian and military losses).

Since the province of Taiwan is not a UN recognized sovereign state, then what is a Nancy Pelosi doing there? even without an invitation from Beijing? Clearly to give/show support by the US administration's attempts to provoke/instigate the provincial Taiwan government to pursue it's path towards independence.

The same playbook that the US has used in regards to an independent Ukraine (latest since 2006) is now being used in regards to Taiwan. - that's all.
I don't believe the US has ever recognized Taiwan as a "province" of China. One country, two systems yes, but the US will always defend any peoples right to democratic beliefs anywhere in the world and Taiwan is no different. If Taiwan wants to be independent and live a western style life, that's up to the people of Taiwan and not the Chinese Communist government. Most other countries in the world would recognize and welcome their decision. If Pelosi wants to visit Taiwan during her trip, she has every right to do so if Taiwan wants her to, with no fear of China's "breast-thumping". The US relationship with Taiwan is very special, but the US is certainly not going to war with China....if it can help it. Years ago in Canada the Province of Quebec wanted to leave Canada so the province had referrendum on it with the Canadian government working hard to keep it within Confederation. Eventually when the Quebec government lost that vote, Quebec decided to remain within Canada. If it had gone the other way, the Canadian government and most Canadians would have respected their decision to leave. That's how democracy works! :)
 

Scorpion

THINK TANK: SENIOR
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
3,865
Reactions
3,194 56 0
Country
Saudi Arabia
Location
Saudi Arabia
but the US will always defend any peoples right to democratic beliefs anywhere in the world and Taiwan is no different.

You mean the US will always use force to install a certain type of governing system just like the one in Iraq? The US could care less about the people of Taiwan. It is doing what it is doing just to limit China movement within that region. It is and will always be China Vs the US. We have seen the 33 years of US democracy-imposing in Afghanistan and the fruit that came out of it.
 

Bayernulan

MEMBER
Joined
Jun 7, 2022
Messages
55
Reactions
14 0 0
Country
Germany
Location
China
I don't believe the US has ever recognized Taiwan as a "province" of China. One country, two systems yes, but the US will always defend any peoples right to democratic beliefs anywhere in the world and Taiwan is no different. If Taiwan wants to be independent and live a western style life, that's up to the people of Taiwan and not the Chinese Communist government. Most other countries in the world would recognize and welcome their decision. If Pelosi wants to visit Taiwan during her trip, she has every right to do so if Taiwan wants her to, with no fear of China's "breast-thumping". The US relationship with Taiwan is very special, but the US is certainly not going to war with China....if it can help it. Years ago in Canada the Province of Quebec wanted to leave Canada so the province had referrendum on it with the Canadian government working hard to keep it within Confederation. Eventually when the Quebec government lost that vote, Quebec decided to remain within Canada. If it had gone the other way, the Canadian government and most Canadians would have respected their decision to leave. That's how democracy works! :)
That is how democracy works :) - well China isn't a Western democracy and they (the people in vast majority) don't even want it or believe in it.

October 25, 1971, the United Nations General Assembly voted on Resolution 2758. Beijing represents entire China.
The USA did acquit in 1972 and signed, that there is only one China (PRC).

Shanghai Communique, released on February 28, 1972, Washington has acknowledged that "there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China." China and the United States also acknowledged their differences, but agreed on the Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence, including non-interference in the internal affairs of other states.
The Shanghai Communique, which established the principles of the one-China principle, has become the political foundation for the normalization of China-U.S. relations, and the establishment of diplomatic relations between the two countries in 1979.


In 1982 officially declared by Deng Xiaoping: China, Taiwan, HK and Macau - one country two systems.

I think it is moot to discuss about what the "people" want. Since the USA and the UN never implemented the "peoples right of self-determination" in 1945 in regards to Taiwan - but both looked on as the KMT "forcefully" took the Island into it's possession in 1948. (it was actually governed by the USA due to the peace treaty with Japan in 1945 - to which both the ROC and CPC where not invited. The KMT (ROC) was never democratically elected and yet the USA never had a problem with that dictatorship running the island and before China.

Not having been invited automatically results in both the KMT and CPC to not acknowledge the US-Japan peace treaty and it's content especially in regards to Taiwan and other islands (SCS) - until today being claimed by the ROC and PRC.

As such "politically" and according to international law - Taiwan belongs to China. And Beijing until today has never "forced" the Taiwanese population to become Mainland citizens. Since 1948/9 the PRC has peacefully and very considerately treated it's brothers and sisters on Taiwan in view of a peaceful reunification. This process had been very well managed and accepted by the vast majority of the Taiwanese.

The USA simply has no right to involve in Taiwan-China internal politics and to push for independence - just as the USA has no right to go into Canada's internal politics and incite Quebec or to go into German politics and incite Bavaria to push for independence.

Upon Tsai Ing Wen taking power in 2016 - this relationship turned sour.

In December 2016 the delicate balance of Taiwan-China relations was disturbed when Tsai placed a telephone call to U.S. President-elect Donald Trump, who overturned several decades of diplomatic protocol by becoming the first U.S. chief executive to speak with his Taiwanese counterpart since 1979. Their conversation appeared to belie the longstanding absence of formal diplomatic relations between Taiwan and the United States, prompting China to make a formal complaint to the U.S. government. Although Tsai and Trump would later say that their call did not indicate a policy shift, by 2019 the Trump administration had committed to major arms sales to Taiwan that included, tanks, missiles, and jet fighters.

Since then the USA has used every possibility to incite unrest between the Taiwan and Mainland China issue especially in regards to the independence movement, right down to constantly declaring that the PRC will invade Taiwan. (A possibility that Xi had outlined in case of Tsai Ing Wen and the USA pushing for independence).

The next election on Taiwan will be held in 2024 - Tsai Ing Wen and her party are likely to lose - one reason why the USA is pushing the subject so intensively.
 
Last edited:

Bayernulan

MEMBER
Joined
Jun 7, 2022
Messages
55
Reactions
14 0 0
Country
Germany
Location
China
Nancy should back off, there is no reason to complicate things right now. What is she getting out of this trip anyway?
What any 82 year old politician want's - a headline in the newspaper and a first class ticket to congregate within political/influential circles.
Aside from that - propagate democracy or rather add on some provocations.
 
Last edited:

Lieutenant

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
1,881
Reactions
2,421 25 0
China's final warning. §§•

a Russian proverb meaning a warning that carries no real consequences
 

GRANNY001

Professional
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
324
Reactions
285 25 0
Country
Canada
Location
Canada
You mean the US will always use force to install a certain type of governing system just like the one in Iraq? The US could care less about the people of Taiwan. It is doing what it is doing just to limit China movement within that region. It is and will always be China Vs the US. We have seen the 33 years of US democracy-imposing in Afghanistan and the fruit that came out of it.
Hello Scorpion. I never said that the US will always use force as you suggest and IMO the US does care about the people of Taiwan and what will happen to them if China decides to "invade". dÒ¿Ób
 

GRANNY001

Professional
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
324
Reactions
285 25 0
Country
Canada
Location
Canada
That is how democracy works :) - well China isn't a Western democracy and they (the people in vast majority) don't even want it or believe in it.

October 25, 1971, the United Nations General Assembly voted on Resolution 2758. Beijing represents entire China.
The USA did acquit in 1972 and signed, that there is only one China (PRC).

Shanghai Communique, released on February 28, 1972, Washington has acknowledged that "there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China." China and the United States also acknowledged their differences, but agreed on the Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence, including non-interference in the internal affairs of other states.
The Shanghai Communique, which established the principles of the one-China principle, has become the political foundation for the normalization of China-U.S. relations, and the establishment of diplomatic relations between the two countries in 1979.


In 1982 officially declared by Deng Xiaoping: China, Taiwan, HK and Macau - one country two systems.

I think it is moot to discuss about what the "people" want. Since the USA and the UN never implemented the "peoples right of self-determination" in 1945 in regards to Taiwan - but both looked on as the KMT "forcefully" took the Island into it's possession in 1948. (it was actually governed by the USA due to the peace treaty with Japan in 1945 - to which both the ROC and CPC where not invited. The KMT (ROC) was never democratically elected and yet the USA never had a problem with that dictatorship running the island and before China.

Not having been invited automatically results in both the KMT and CPC to not acknowledge the US-Japan peace treaty and it's content especially in regards to Taiwan and other islands (SCS) - until today being claimed by the ROC and PRC.

As such "politically" and according to international law - Taiwan belongs to China. And Beijing until today has never "forced" the Taiwanese population to become Mainland citizens. Since 1948/9 the PRC has peacefully and very considerately treated it's brothers and sisters on Taiwan in view of a peaceful reunification. This process had been very well managed and accepted by the vast majority of the Taiwanese.

The USA simply has no right to involve in Taiwan-China internal politics and to push for independence - just as the USA has no right to go into Canada's internal politics and incite Quebec or to go into German politics and incite Bavaria to push for independence.

Upon Tsai Ing Wen taking power in 2016 - this relationship turned sour.

In December 2016 the delicate balance of Taiwan-China relations was disturbed when Tsai placed a telephone call to U.S. President-elect Donald Trump, who overturned several decades of diplomatic protocol by becoming the first U.S. chief executive to speak with his Taiwanese counterpart since 1979. Their conversation appeared to belie the longstanding absence of formal diplomatic relations between Taiwan and the United States, prompting China to make a formal complaint to the U.S. government. Although Tsai and Trump would later say that their call did not indicate a policy shift, by 2019 the Trump administration had committed to major arms sales to Taiwan that included, tanks, missiles, and jet fighters.

Since then the USA has used every possibility to incite unrest between the Taiwan and Mainland China issue especially in regards to the independence movement, right down to constantly declaring that the PRC will invade Taiwan. (A possibility that Xi had outlined in case of Tsai Ing Wen and the USA pushing for independence).

The next election on Taiwan will be held in 2024 - Tsai Ing Wen and her party are likely to lose - one reason why the USA is pushing the subject so intensively.
I can see where your loyalties lie Bayernulan, so whatever I say you will certainly disagree and that's OK. §§•
 

Bayernulan

MEMBER
Joined
Jun 7, 2022
Messages
55
Reactions
14 0 0
Country
Germany
Location
China
I can see where your loyalties lie Bayernulan, so whatever I say you will certainly disagree and that's OK. §§•
Nothing to do with "loyalties" and IMO not an acceptable way for getting out of a discussion when facts are presented - when issues are not presented correctly or simply false and misleading on purpose (such as China plans to attack Taiwan) or (Taiwan is already independent) I will always state my view on matters - totally independent of the respective parties or countries.

Take the present Greece/Turkey issue. It is an issue that clearly needs and only can be handled by these two countries within the framework of existing agreements/treaties and the acknowledgement by both parties towards international law. After all both are democratic countries.
They both really don't need this nonsense-talker - Germany's foreign minister - Annalena Baerbock or any other outside politician to travel there and at the end only incite one or even both sides. (just as Pelosi's visit will - if it should occur).

Off course the USA will also throw their weight into the Greece-Turkey matter - regardless of annoying one of the parties, ultimately leading to the next foreseeable confrontation. The USA could also talk or send Pelosi to it's "democratic" friends in Saudi-Arabia and the UAE in regards to Yemen.

Inciting a peaceful relationship since 1970's between two parties - Taiwan and China - whilst bringing in "democracy" and being in alliance with dictatorships and ignoring e.g. 300,000 dead civilians, amidst extreme humanitarian violations in e.g. Yemen. If Saudi-Arabia and the UAE are in a "rightfull" war - then why doesn't the USA intervene on it's allies side? if it is a "wrongful" war then why doesn't the USA protect democracy, civilians and human rights in Yemen? we can also discuss about some other places in Africa, South-America or Asia if it pleases you.

That is not just political hypocrisy at it's best, but is clearly demonstrating the Geo-political self-interest of the "democratic" USA towards any other country being viewed/declared by them as a threat - whilst the USA itself doesn't even shy away from causing/inciting a war. - see Ukraine or the Taiwan issue.

You believe that the population in China wouldn't be aware about these/such circumstances? - spread throughout the world by the USA since 1900 under the "pretext" of protecting democracy? Aside from a "justifiable" 3 weeks border war with Vietnam, China has not been into any war since the past 60 years (Sino-Indian war 1962) - how about the USA? who are you trying to kid? just yourself?“¡¡“
 
Last edited:

GRANNY001

Professional
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
324
Reactions
285 25 0
Country
Canada
Location
Canada
Nothing to do with "loyalties" and IMO not an acceptable way for getting out of a discussion when facts are presented - when issues are not presented correctly or simply false and misleading on purpose (such as China plans to attack Taiwan) or (Taiwan is already independent) I will always state my view on matters - totally independent of the respective parties or countries.

Take the present Greece/Turkey issue. It is an issue that clearly needs and only can be handled by these two countries within the framework of existing agreements/treaties and the acknowledgement by both parties towards international law. After all both are democratic countries.
They both really don't need this nonsense-talker - Germany's foreign minister - Annalena Baerbock or any other outside politician to travel there and at the end only incite one or even both sides. (just as Pelosi's visit will - if it should occur).

Off course the USA will also throw their weight into the Greece-Turkey matter - regardless of annoying one of the parties, ultimately leading to the next foreseeable confrontation. The USA could also talk or send Pelosi to it's "democratic" friends in Saudi-Arabia and the UAE in regards to Yemen.

Inciting a peaceful relationship since 1970's between two parties - Taiwan and China - whilst bringing in "democracy" and being in alliance with dictatorships and ignoring e.g. 300,000 dead civilians, amidst extreme humanitarian violations in e.g. Yemen. If Saudi-Arabia and the UAE are in a "rightfull" war - then why doesn't the USA intervene on it's allies side? if it is a "wrongful" war then why doesn't the USA protect democracy, civilians and human rights in Yemen? we can also discuss about some other places in Africa, South-America or Asia if it pleases you.

That is not just political hypocrisy at it's best, but is clearly demonstrating the Geo-political self-interest of the "democratic" USA towards any other country being viewed/declared by them as a threat - whilst the USA itself doesn't even shy away from causing/inciting a war. - see Ukraine or the Taiwan issue.

You believe that the population in China wouldn't be aware about these/such circumstances? - spread throughout the world by the USA since 1900 under the "pretext" of protecting democracy? Aside from a "justifiable" 3 weeks border war with Vietnam, China has not been into any war since the past 60 years (Sino-Indian war 1962) - how about the USA? who are you trying to kid? just yourself?“¡¡“
I believe it's time to tone down the rhetoric Bayernulan and just agree to disagree.:)
 

Bayernulan

MEMBER
Joined
Jun 7, 2022
Messages
55
Reactions
14 0 0
Country
Germany
Location
China
I believe it's time to tone down the rhetoric Bayernulan and just agree to disagree.:)
In the worst case it's always okay to disagree - but not via insinuating towards another posters "supposed loyalties" - so as to avoid facing unfavorable facts during a discussion.
If you can come up with substantiated facts - why should I disagree? fact is a fact, independent of personal emotions or agendas.
The "grey zone" (no facts but simple assumptions) is were people usually agree to disagree - right? :)
 
Last edited:
Top