Shiaism dissected | Page 7 | World Defense

Shiaism dissected

Falcon29

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Iran has a lot of potential but the leading elite need to go. Today Iranian youths have different mentality, different hopes, different dreams as the world is evolving they are looking forward. They want a decent life, they want to become part of the global village. You can not hold them hostages and subject them to a one-way lifestyle. Religions came to free one soul from slavery, came to break the chains not to imprison people. Having questions, engaging in debates, challenging different beliefs should not be criminalized. People should be free to worship their phones, become religious or no religious, free to think, reflect, ponder, accept or reject. I do not know what to say but the state should disassociate itself from the religious establishment and perhaps can focus on the economy, improving infrastructure, education and healthcare. With the resources Iran has, it would have been a tough number in the world if those resources were utilized the correct way. What is Iran gaining by supporting the madness going on in the Arab World! literally nothing. Money is giving to Hamas, Hizbollah, Houthies and Iran backed groups in Iraq but average Iranians see nothing in return.

Nope, Hamas gets hardly anything from Iran. 99.9% of IRGC budget goes to themselves and Shia clerics/groups in Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Africa and elsewhere. Hamas is not prioritezed at all and I know how they get their money and they are in a deep financial crisis.
 

Berke2

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Khomeini criticizes the Prophet (pbuh) for not delivering the message of imamah properly
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Asalaamualaykum, how are you guys?
From - Khomeini the Heretic & Enemy of Islam
Khomeini in His book “Kashf al Asrar” (commenting on the Qur’anic verse):
((This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, God is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful))
And it is clear that if the Prophet had delivered the message of Imamah (Imamite heretical belief in Shi’ism) as Allah ordered and if he had placed some effort in this matter, Many Battles and conflicts would not have taken place in the Islamic world, nor would we have many differences in The Usool and Furu’ of this religion.
Source: Kashf al Asrar, Rooh Allah al khomeini, Translated by Dr. muhammad albandari, third print 1988, Dar Ammar for publishing and distribution Amman.
Imagine being so arrogant that a person would actually criticize the Messenger (pbuh) of Allah for his (pbuh) dawah. The shia belief in 12 imams is a core tenant of their faith, so much so that it is necessary to believe in it or a person doesn't have eman. In all my years as a Muslim, I never once thought the Qur'an mentioned anything about 12 infallible imams. We know about about the prophets (peace be upon them all), the angels, then we even know of individuals who were not prophets but held in high esteem such as Dhulqarnain or Khidr. But 12 imams? No way. I had never even heard of that until I came across shias.

Did the Prophet (pbuh) forget to tell us? No. We never heard about it because it's made up. If you ask shias to justify imamah from Qur'an, they will never be able to bring forward verses to straightforwardly prove it. They will try to take something out of context or stretch the meaning of a verse, to try and back themselves up. Khomeini it seems goes one step further though and tries to blame his shakey belief system's unsteady fundamentals on the Prophet (pbuh).
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Scorpion

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I read an article on it a couple years ago, apparently they haven't received much since the syrian civil war started.

Not ture, Hamas is surviving because of the financial aids they get from Iran and Qatar.
 

Berke2

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Not ture, Hamas is surviving because of the financial aids they get from Iran and Qatar.

Well I don't know about Qatar but the figures of financial aid before and after the start of the syrian were lower from Iran for Hamas. Although when I read it, it was maybe 2015, so not sure how much it is today.

In any case the gulf arabs should not let Iran into a position where they can say only they fund Palestinian resistance. We on here know that Iran only do it for PR in the Muslim world and defeating Israel will probably give a huge approval rating to whoever does it but still that PR does fool many a unsuspecting Muslim.
 
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Scorpion

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Well I don't know about Qatar but the figures of financial aid before and after the start of the syrian were lower from Iran for Hamas. Although when I read it, it was maybe 2015, so not sure how much it is today.

In any case the gulf arabs should not let Iran into a position where they can say only they fund Palestinian resistance. We on here know that Iran only do it for PR in the Muslim world and defeating Israel will probably give a huge approval rating to whoever does it but still that PR does fool many a unsuspecting Muslim.


Israel is happy that there is a split within Palestine, if Hamas disappeared, Israel will have nothing to justify its refusal to negotiate a peace plan. Also, Hamas has some issues with its neighbours. Saudi Arabia detained tens of Hamas members inside the country for raising money illegally and engaging in suspicious activities. There is a history between Hamas, Iran, Qatar and Israel.
 

Berke2

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Israel is happy that there is a split within Palestine, if Hamas disappeared, Israel will have nothing to justify its refusal to negotiate a peace plan. Also, Hamas has some issues with its neighbours. Saudi Arabia detained tens of Hamas members inside the country for raising money illegally and engaging in suspicious activities. There is a history between Hamas, Iran, Qatar and Israel.

Those rotten zionists would make up some other lame excuse. I do not think it is good to blame the lack of a peace plane on a Muslim group though. Hamas didn't just start up randomly one day, it started up for a purpose and that was for the Palestinian Muslims. Having issues with it's neighbors doesn't make it a bad group. If I was a Palestinian, I wouldn't exactly love the current rulers of the UAE or Saudi either due to their slow drift to a pro-israeli posture.
 

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Those rotten zionists would make up some other lame excuse. I do not think it is good to blame the lack of a peace plane on a Muslim group though. Hamas didn't just start up randomly one day, it started up for a purpose and that was for the Palestinian Muslims. Having issues with it's neighbors doesn't make it a bad group. If I was a Palestinian, I wouldn't exactly love the current rulers of the UAE or Saudi either due to their slow drift to a pro-israeli posture.

Before you point fingers at others, a little of pragmatic approach would help.

On the 27th of Feb 2019, a 2nd pilot from a third country, as confirmed by Lt.Gen.Ghulam Mustafa ex-CO SPD was confirmed. What was the nationality of that pilot?
 

Berke2

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Before you point fingers at others, a little of pragmatic approach would help.

On the 27th of Feb 2019, a 2nd pilot from a third country, as confirmed by Lt.Gen.Ghulam Mustafa ex-CO SPD was confirmed. What was the nationality of that pilot?

Bro I point fingers at anyone including my own nationality. I've seen a lot of talk from Muslims about pragmatic approaches but the bad tends to outweigh the benefits generally. They argue pragmatism for social issues here for Muslims in the west too and I've seen nothing but bad come from it. If people started becoming more principled Muslims, it may be harder initially but long term it would benefit us insha'Allah.

I even point out Hamas's bad actions like they sent condolences for the murderer Soleimani etc... So my criticism is pretty widespread.

Google said the lt general said it was israeli?
 

Khafee

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Bro I point fingers at anyone including my own nationality. I've seen a lot of talk from Muslims about pragmatic approaches but the bad tends to outweigh the benefits generally. They argue pragmatism for social issues here for Muslims in the west too and I've seen nothing but bad come from it. If people started becoming more principled Muslims, it may be harder initially but long term it would benefit us insha'Allah.

I even point out Hamas's bad actions like they sent condolences for the murderer Soleimani etc... So my criticism is pretty widespread.


Google said the lt general said it was israeli?
All indicators point in that direction.

Ret.Lt.Gen Ghulam Mustafa, is not a man to be taken lightly, retired or not.
 

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Shia is an extension of Zoroastrianism.
Their Arab hate and specially the hate against Sahaba roots from the defeat of Zoroastrian Persian empire from Muslim Arabs.
 

Berke2

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Shia is an extension of Zoroastrianism.
Their Arab hate and specially the hate against Sahaba roots from the defeat of Zoroastrian Persian empire from Muslim Arabs.

The shia 12th imam (their mahdi) will actually spend a great of time killing arabs according to narrations that their classical scholars believed in.
The following post is written by someone who was asking questions to shia about some of their hadiths regarding the 12th imam.

(it's quite long so presss Ctrl + f and search for the word arabs to see the hadiths they're mentioned in)
This above shia article mentions only some of hadith mentioned in the long post below and talks about the view regarding them. I haven't read it but the guy who the wrote the post did, he said the following about it so keep it in mind when you read the shia narrations:

"none of their early scholars rejected them and the author provided reference of like a couple of modern scholars who weakened them. Many still probably believe them who knows. They believe in weak hadith too. " .

His post:
Assaalamu 'Alikum.

Long post warning! A couple of days ago I made a post discussing about the Mahdi. I didn't go in to the details because for Sunni Muslims we really don't have much narrations about the Mahdi and about his life. Imams are not the cornerstone of our religion as such there is not any focus on them. So I have been reading about the Mahdi from Shia Islam. The Mahdi or the 12th Imam is a vital part of the belief and the Shias pray for his return and revere him extremely and as such there is a lot of material regarding him in the Shia literature.

Today I want to ask about some of the contents of this book called "The Ghayba" written by Muhammad b. Ibrahim al-Nu'mani. I found some traditions in it that are extremely troublesome and disturbing. After reading these hadith I don't have a positive impression of the Shia's Mahdi as I feel he is portrayed as a merciless and violent and not the peaceful and loving Mahdi like what is shown by the Shias in public. Like I never see the Mahdi mentioned in this violent nature. Which means either these hadith are weak and fabricated or the scholars of Shias are hiding it from the laymen. I don't think a divinely appointed guide from Allah behaves in this way and the Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم is the greatest example for us.

Here is the link for كتاب الغيبة by محمد بن إبراهيم النعماني on the Shia Online Library in Arabic. I found the English translation of the book on Al-Islam too. It can be found on this link. I don't know how reliable the English translations are so that is why I will provide the hadith in English and the link for the original text in Arabic. I am taking all English translations from the Al-Islam book. To try and keep the post small I will not quote the chain of narrators. The chain of narrations will be found in the source link.

I want your help to discuss some hadith in this book and tell me if they are authentic or not and if they are elaborate on them. What do scholars comment on them? I would also welcome your personal opinions regarding them. So Bismillah let's start:

These hadith are all from Chapter 13 of the book titled "Door to what is narrated about attributes, biography, deeds, and what is revealed about him (Al Mahdi) in the Quran."

[Unrelated to topic] “The man of this matter has a likeness to Prophet Joseph (as). He is a son of a (black) bondmaid. Allah will make him succeed within a night.” (Hadith No. 8, Pg. 231) I found this hadith to be similar to one of our Sunni hadith. The Arabic of the hadith is similar to ours. From our hadith we read, "الْمَهْدِيُّ مِنَّا أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ يُصْلِحُهُ اللَّهُ فِي لَيْلَةٍ " and we read the hadith in your book, " يصلح الله عز وجل له أمره في ليلة واحدة "To my knowledge the Shias don't believe that Allah will make the Mahdi upright/rectify in a single night or in a short time because he is already upright as he is infallible. This gives me the impression that not all hadith which I am about to quote will be Sahih and authentic beliefs of the Shia.

“I want you to mention to me the name of one of the virtuous men-I meant al-Qa'im (as).” He said: “His name is like mine.”I said: “Will he act like Muhammad (as)?” He said: “O Zurara, how far! He will not act as the Prophet (S) has acted.”I asked: “May I die for you! Why not?” He said: “The Prophet (S) has acted leniently towards his umma. He has entreated people kindly whereas al-Qa'im (as) will use his sword with them. He has been ordered by the book, which is with him,to do so. He will kill (bad) people without forgiving anyone. Woe unto whoever opposes him then.” (Hadith No. 14 Pg. 234-235) My question is that since "He has been ordered by the book, which is with him,to do so," what book does he have? If it is the Quran why not just say so? Is it another book? And even in the Quran the violence that is there has historical context and violence is never encouraged and mercy and co-existence is the focus.

Once I was sitting with Abu Abdullah as-Sadiq (as) when al-Mu’alla bin Khunays asked him: “Will al-Qa'im (as), when he appears, act unlike the way, in which Ali (as) has acted?” He said: “Yes, he will. Ali has acted with leniency and forgiving because he has known that his Shia are going to be controlled after him. But al-Qa'im (as), when appears, will kill and capture because he knows that his Shia will not be defeated after him forever.” (Hadith No. 16, Pg 235) Does Ali (RA) know the future? It is not true to begin with as during and after the Safavid Empire the Shias have land of their own now with proper Government and everything. No one controls them and the Qaim is not even here yet. I think this is false.

“If people know what al-Qa'im (as) will do when he appears, most of them will wish he would not appear. He kills great numbers of people. He begins with the people of Quraysh. He kills much many of them until many people say: He is not from Muhammad’s progeny. If he is from Muhammad’s progeny, he will be merciful!” (Hadith No. 18, Pg 236) This is so problematic and disturbing. I find it shocking.

“Al-Qa'im will rise with a new task, new principles and new judgements. He will be severe with the Arabs. He will do not but killing. He will not forgive anyone and he will not care for any blame because he acts for the sake of Allah.” (Hadith No. 19, Pg 236) Umm what is this? Is the Mahdi bringing a new Shariah other than Prophet Mohammad's صلى الله عليه و سلم? And again he is shown to be like a blood thirsty violent person.

“When al-Qa'im appears, there will be nothing between him and between the Arabs and Quraysh except the sword. There will be nothing save killing. So why do they urge on his appearance? By Allah, he wears rough cloths and eats coarse barley. It will be just the sword and killing under the shadow of the sword.” (Hadith No. 21, Pg 237) Again too much violence and barbarism. Where is all the love and justice and peace?

Al-Qa'im (as) will not appear unless his appearance is preceded by great terror, earthquakes, seditions, calamities, spread of plague, killing among the Arabs, great disagreements among people, separation in religion and bad conditions until one wishes to die day and night because of what madness he sees among people and their trying to eat each other. Al-Qa'im (as) will appear after people reach a very high extent of despair. Blessed is he, who sees al-Qa'im (as) and becomes one of his supporters, and woe unto whoever opposes him, disobeys his orders and becomes his enemy. (Hadith No. 22, Pg 238) This is the hadith I wanted to mention which contains signs that people link to coming of Mahdi. I can't help but see the events of the Syrian civil war, Yemen, and the whole of Levant and the heavy involvement of the Iranian regime in these events. What if it is backed by this hadith? I see it reflected in daily life as there is a tremendous hate/racism for Arabs. Actually from both sides. To be clear I am not taking sides of the Arabs. I am not an Arab myself. Far from it.

“O Bishr, when al-Qa'im al-Mahdi appears, he will bring five hundred men of those, who have remained of Quraysh (the Arabs), and kill them. Then he brings other five hundred men and kills them. Then he brings other five hundred and kills them.” Basheer bin Ghalib, the brother of Bishr, said: “I witness that al-Husayn bin Ali (as) has mentioned to my brother six times five hundreds.” (Hadith No. 23, Pg 238-239)

“Nothing remains between us and the Arabs except slaughter. (He pointed with his hand at his mouth).” (Hadith No 24, Pg 239) Again really disturbing. This narration is mistranslated though as he pointed with his hands at his throat not his mouth. The Arabic says وأومأ بيده إلى حلقه . Halq is throat. So you know kinda like the slitting throat action. This is hardly the kind of thing a pious man of God would narrate using this kind of rude gesture. It makes me doubt this hadith as evil and fabricated.

These were some of the hadith I had problem with. There were a lot more of similar nature. Too much death and destruction. The Mahdi for the Sunnis is supposed to avert the death and destruction that Al-Dajjal will cause not be the cause of it himself. Please explain to me are these authentic? Are they taken and believed by the Shia and scholars? How do they interpret them?
 
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