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Scorpion

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Why Russia and Iran negotiate now ?


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Syrie : un mois de bombardements russes, pour quel bilan ?

29.10.2015 à 17h54 • Mis à jour le 30.10.2015 à 10h26

Vendredi 30 octobre, alors que se tient à Vienne une conférence internationale pour tenter d’esquisser une sortie du conflit syrien, cela fait exactement un mois que les bombes russes ont commencé à fendre le ciel syrien, dans le cadre de l’opération de lutte « contre le terrorisme international » lancée par Vladimir Poutine. Un mois d’une offensive qui a fait près de 600 morts, selon l’Observatoire syrien des droits de l’homme (OSDH), mais dont les résultats sur le terrain sont contestés et limités.


Qui est visé par les frappes ?

Moscou s’est attiré les foudres des Occidentaux en privilégiant les raids visant non pas l’organisation Etats islamique (EI), mais les rebelles et opposants au régime de Bachar Al-Assad, allié de Moscou.

Les cartes des frappes, réalisées à partir des données collectées par l’Institute for the Study of War (ISW) américain et le collectif d’investigation Bellingcat, confirment que ce sont des régions tenues par l’opposition, en particulier dans les gouvernerat de Hama, d’Idlib et d’Alep, dans le nord-ouest du pays, qui ont été les plus visées par les raids russes. Cette tendance pouvait s’observer dès la première semaine de frappes.


Quel est le bilan de ces frappes ?

Selon les informations recueillies sur le terrain par l’OSDH, en trois semaines d’intervention, les raids russes auraient tué :

- 279 rebelles modérés ou alliés au Front Al-Nosra, branche syrienne d’Al-Qaida

- 185 civils, parmi lesquels 48 enfants et 46 femmes

- 131 djihadistes du groupe Etat islamique


Par comparaison, selon l’OSDH, les raids de la coalition menée par les Etats-Unis ont, eux, fait 3 628 morts, dont 3 276 parmi les membres de l’Etat islamique et 146 issus du Front al-Nosra et d’autres groupes islamistes en un peu plus d’un an. Deux cent six civils ont également été tués par des bombardements de la coalition.


Quelles sont les conséquences de ces frappes sur le terrain ?

Si le régime de Damas s’est félicité, le 24 octobre, d’opérations qui « commencent à donner de grands résultats », les frappes russes n’ont pour l’heure pas modifié les rapports de force sur le terrain.

L’appui de Moscou a surtout permis à l’armée syrienne de lancer des offensives, notamment dans les provinces centrales de Homs et de Hama et dans celle d’Alep (Nord), sans parvenir jusqu’à présent à prendre le dessus sur les rebelles.


L’objectif est de s’emparer de secteurs situés près d’une route stratégique reliant Alep à la capitale Damas, bastion du régime, afin, selon le quotidien Al-Watan, proche du pouvoir, de « [couper] les lignes de renforts des hommes armés (rebelles) ».

Dans le même temps, l’EI s’est emparé d’importantes sections d’une route vitale pour le régime reliant Homs et Alep.

La reconquête des territoires perdus par le régime est plus lente qu’espérée. L’opposition armée syrienne oppose une résistance aux forces loyalistes, grâce à un soutien accru en armement des pays alliés. « Il y a des tensions entre Damas et Moscou car les Russes comprennent qu’ils ont surestimé les capacités du régime à reprendre le dessus militairement et à nettoyer les poches de résistance », selon une source diplomatique.

C’est ce bilan en demi-teinte qui pourrait pousser Moscou à vouloir accélérer les négociations sur le front diplomatique avec l’ouverture, jeudi soir, de la conférence internationale de Vienne sur la résolution du conflit syrien.



Des hôpitaux ont-ils été touchés ?

Ces derniers jours, de nombreuses voix accusant la Russie d’avoir touché des hôpitaux se sont fait entendre. Ainsi, jeudi 29 octobre, Médecins sans frontières a déploré une « récente et significative augmentation » des raids aériens sur des hôpitaux qui auraient fait 35 morts, sans préciser l’origine des frappes.

Une semaine auparavant, la Société médicale syro-américaine avait accusé la Russie d’être à l’origine de frappes ayant touché cinq hôpitaux et centre de soins dans des régions tenues par les rebelles. L’OSDH a, elle, affirmé qu’un hôpital de campagne dans le nord-ouest de la Syrie a été touché par un raid aérien russe, faisant treize morts. L’hôpital de Latamné (Hama) a, lui, été touché par un missile guidé, une technologie que seule l’armée russe possède.

Ainsi accusée d’avoir touché des civils, l’armée russe a exigé des attachés militaires occidentaux d’apporter des « preuves officielles ou de démentir » ces informations qu’elle réfute.


Faut-il anticiper une nouvelle vague d’exode ?

Selon l’OSDH, cette nouvelle offensive armée est venue alimenter un peu plus la vague d’exode depuis les zones de conflit en Syrie. Il évoquait, le 20 octobre, 100 000 personnes ayant fui les provinces de Hama, d’Alep et de Lattaquié (ouest) suite aux frappes.


Le Monde


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There is some game going on otherwise both Russia and Iran wont let Assad go. There are trying to replace him with another pro one.
 

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الله يلعنكم من خونة
 

Falcon29

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What do you mean? and what is this?

This is framework of meeting today in Greece I believe. It basically states the regime will stay intact, and a cease fire will be proposed for rebels. If rebels accept it then talks will be created for formation of government which will probably remain majority Alawite or similiar to past regime. If that works in first place, then all other Sunni armed groups besides FSA will come under attack sincce they're on terrorist list. Arab nations are part of this, so they basically agreed to it. It shows you where Arab governments stand on this matter, our Abbas/PA is also pro-Assad.
 

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This is framework of meeting today in Greece I believe. It basically states the regime will stay intact, and a cease fire will be proposed for rebels. If rebels accept it then talks will be created for formation of government which will probably remain majority Alawite or similiar to past regime. If that works in first place, then all other Sunni armed groups besides FSA will come under attack sincce they're on terrorist list. Arab nations are part of this, so they basically agreed to it. It shows you where Arab governments stand on this matter, our Abbas/PA is also pro-Assad.

Where does it say so if we take the authenticity of it into account. There is no agreement whatsoever as we speak. No Arab nation certainly not UAE or Saudi Arabia would ever agree to that. Before we pass any judgments we will have to wait for the outcome of the meeting.
 

Falcon29

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Where does it say so if we take the authenticity of it into account. There is no agreement whatsoever as we speak. No Arab nation certainly not UAE or Saudi Arabia would ever agree to that. Before we pass any judgments we will have to wait for the outcome of the meeting.

You don't need official agreement, imagine how angry Saudi and Emirate people will be if Arab media publishes details of an official agreement. Our governments know we will get upset. Hence they will not make anything public or official. Our problem is that we wait on them, we we can observe their attitude towards conflict. And their attitude towards conflict has been that Assad regime is better option. Even if Assad himself disappears, the same regime will be intact. Except they will add a couple FSA members to the government and call the revolution over.
 

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Reported clashes in Qalamoun and Sadaad, ISIS trying to cut regime Damascus-Homs supply line.

Regime makes some gains in Latakia and Aleppo but marginal for most part.
 

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Al Qaeda chief urges militant unity against Russia in Syria| Reuters


Al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahri called on Muslim supporters to band together to confront the threat from the West and Russia in Syria and Iraq, the latest recording suggesting greater unity between al Qaeda and Islamic State.

"The Americans, Russians, Iranians, Alawites, and Hezbollah are coordinating their war against us -- are we not capable of stopping the fighting amongst ourselves so we can direct all our efforts against them?" Zawahri said in an audio recording released on the Internet on Sunday.

It was not clear when the recording was made but references to Russian aggression suggest it was made after Russia, an ally of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, launched air raids against opposition groups and Islamic State in Syria on Sept. 30.

....................
 

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These calls for unity are proof that the fight against terrorists organizations is finally starting to have an impact. IMHO, uniting wouldn't change much. The world has had enough of savage acts of the terrorists and as they are faced with determined opposition on all fronts they'll have no options but to disband and flee. But wherever it is they'll flee to, they'll not know peace.
 

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These calls for unity are proof that the fight against terrorists organizations is finally starting to have an impact. IMHO, uniting wouldn't change much. The world has had enough of savage acts of the terrorists and as they are faced with determined opposition on all fronts they'll have no options but to disband and flee. But wherever it is they'll flee to, they'll not know peace.

Well it's good to see you're now being open to the reality and not denying it anymore. Iran, Assad, plus the world are all together as one team against the rebels in Syria. So we all agree no more nonsense where US opposes Iran or not. US is bombing rebels along with Russia to prevent their advances. US is aiding Kurds and pro-Assad militias all over Iraq and in Syria. Currently in Hasakah. As for 'terrorists' falling, they aren't going anywhere. The Sunni world put behind the lame anti-muslim agenda, it has no meaning to us anymore. We know that Sunni's who defend themselves from Israeli, NATO or Shia ethnic cleansing are framed as 'terrorists'. Sunni world won't watch while aggressors commit genocide against local Sunni population. Even if it endangers all 1.4 Billion Sunni Muslims around the world.
 

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Falcon29

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Rebels in Aleppo are performing poorly:

CS08uahWoAACReb.png

..................

Russia is using much air power in Aleppo

.....

Abu Marwan Al Tunsi ‏@Abu_Marwan_8 1h1 hour ago
@warrnews: #Breaking #FSA collapsing in southern #aleppo #regime forces are advancing
.........

Many field commanders of rebels killed today.

........

Some reported news to come(maybe coalition in Aleppo similiar to Idlib):
ٍShami Rebel ‏@OptimisticReb11 7m7 minutes ago
Big news shortly about brothers in faith becoming brothers in arms too, in #Aleppo
..............

News:

ٍShami Rebel ‏@OptimisticReb11 4m4 minutes ago
Breaking: Jund al-Aqsa sends reinforcements to fight alongside #ISIS in Manbij, #Aleppo Sounds of takbeer welcome the development.

..............

Some rebel factions and ISIS fighting along side now. This was expected, if SAA cuts rebels off in Aleppo they will lose their only supply line and be besieged in Idlib and slowly die. They have no choice.
 

Falcon29

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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/03/world/middleeast/iran-says-it-may-quit-talks-on-syria-over-saudis-role.html?_r=0

Iran suggested on Monday that it might withdraw from the new peace talks on Syria because of what Iranian officials described as the unconstructive role of Saudi Arabia, Iran’s rival for dominance in the Middle East.

It was unclear whether the suggestion, carried via state-run news media, was serious or more akin to diplomatic posturing, since Iran would have much to lose if it were to leave talks it has long sought to attend.

The Iranian warning came three days after representatives from Iran and Saudi Arabia sat in the same room for the first time at a formal diplomatic meeting in Vienna of nearly 20 countries, including Russia and the United States, aimed at finding a way to end the Syrian civil war, now in its fifth year.

...............
 

Redheart

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As for 'terrorists' falling, they aren't going anywhere. The Sunni world put behind the lame anti-muslim agenda, it has no meaning to us anymore. We know that Sunni's who defend themselves from Israeli, NATO or Shia ethnic cleansing are framed as 'terrorists'. Sunni world won't watch while aggressors commit genocide against local Sunni population. Even if it endangers all 1.4 Billion Sunni Muslims around the world.
While yes, everyone has the right to fight defend themselves against aggressors, haven't terrorist groups such as ISIS, Al Qaeda and others which identify themselves as Sunni cause people to lose respect for Muslims and even fear and hate them? Most people in the West can't tell the difference between Shias and Sunnis. As long as someone is a Muslim, s/he'll be treated unfairly by the authorities.
 

Falcon29

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Skip to 0:25 for people who say US trains rebels....this is embarrassing. Rebels need to invest more/take training ethics seriously. Otherwise they can't manage offensives, they did well in Idlib, other than that they can't make gains anywhere. ISIS however knows how to launch effective offensives.

10:30-11:00 ...omg...is there no field commanders who realize how stupid this is? They need to swap their field commanders asap.

While yes, everyone has the right to fight defend themselves against aggressors, haven't terrorist groups such as ISIS, Al Qaeda and others which identify themselves as Sunni cause people to lose respect for Muslims and even fear and hate them? Most people in the West can't tell the difference between Shias and Sunnis. As long as someone is a Muslim, s/he'll be treated unfairly by the authorities.

Contrary to what we are told, groups like ISIS don't have central command structure. Hence some of their members or groups of members operate on different agendas and don't take orders form higher command. Not just in terms of Iraqi or Syrian branches. There are branches within branches within each state. They don't have control over all their fighters, hence sometimes ISIS looks very well behaved, others look very stupid. The people who do terrorist acts overseas in other local nations targeting Westerners are locals who do it in name of ISIS but have no connection. So we can't really judge it from this standpoint as these are unprofessional militias that can't establish proper communication/guidelines.
 
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