A PIA Airbus airplane flying from Lahore to Karachi has crashed with 95 passengers onboard

[Caprxl]

How can we be sure that the altimeter, air-speed indicator and vertical speed indicator were in perfect order? We cant.

Would that data from FDR not be counter checked against Ground Radar/ ATC readings by Air Bus if not PIA for maintaining their own safety SOPs.
If any glitch would have been there and verified by cross checking data, I think it would be mentioned in the report by AirBus.

 

[ali razza]

It was US navy. Oman didn't have EF back then either.

they aren’t happy with eft
heard some instances where it failed miserably

 

[Khafee]

Would that data from FDR not be counter checked against Ground Radar/ ATC readings by Air Bus if not PIA for maintaining their own safety SOPs.
If any glitch would have been there and verified by cross checking data, I think it would be mentioned in the report by AirBus.

Raises another point, how reliable is that Ground Radar / ATC data. No one is talking about the flt delay in Muscat a day earlier.

 

[Caprxl]

Raises another point, how reliable is that Ground Radar / ATC data. No one is talking about the flt delay in Muscat a day earlier.

It's becoming a Pandora's Box, just like an onion, you peel one layer of problem & another one appears & it continues right down the core. Guess this is what years of corruption & political hiring brings you.

Well it could be, but I think as number of flights incoming per day to the said airport, if the equipment needed to be calibrated, many approaching aircraft's flying crew would be reporting the mismatch of their readings with those of the ATC, but again, it is Pakistan. Also to note, because of Covid, flight Operation was at minimum in those days, so the point your raised is valid & weighs much.

This just makes me wonder, ATC comes under CAA of Pakistan, PIA would have nothing to do with it? Right?

 

[Caprxl]

No one is talking about the flt delay in Muscat a day earlier

Maybe because it points to the Engineering Dept. of PIA & they dont want the guns pointing at them.

 

[Khafee]

It's becoming a Pandora's Box, just like an onion, you peel one layer of problem & another one appears & it continues right down the core. Guess this is what years of corruption & political hiring brings you.

Well it could be, but I think as number of flights incoming per day to the said airport, if the equipment needed to be calibrated, many approaching aircraft's flying crew would be reporting the mismatch of their readings with those of the ATC, but again, it is Pakistan. Also to note, because of Covid, flight Operation was at minimum in those days, so the point your raised is valid & weighs much.

This just makes me wonder, ATC comes under CAA of Pakistan, PIA would have nothing to do with it? Right?

Collusion is not out of the question

 

[Caprxl]

Collusion is not out of the question

Chances are high, it could be. But again, until the problem is not rooted out, cutting the branches will not help. A major reform in PIA & downsizing.
Just today I read in news that more than 80 Pilots from PIA have accepted of sending someone else to sit in their exam & Government of Pakistan issuing an Alert to Foreign Airlines about credibility of more than 700 Pakistan Origin Pilots with fake/dubious educational degrees

After knowing these stats, safety record & crash rate of PIA is seeming far better than top Airlines of the wold.

 

[baqai]

1) The ATC didn't tell the pilots that the engines were on fire, on the first landing. Maybe they were thinking, he is kicking in afterburners to take off again?

2) As per my initial conversation, this a/c was not fit to fly. now the preliinary report, lays the entire blame on the Pilot, and a minuscule part on ATC. PIA Enggr has been absolved of any wrong doing. After months in storage, the a/c was "A OK" seriously! How can we be sure that the altimeter, air-speed indicator and vertical speed indicator were in perfect order? We cant.

3) PALPA is so filthy that even if the Pilot was not to blame, them opening thier mouths would make him guilty. It is very convenient to blame the pilots, but to do so with PIA Engrr track record? I wouldn't do it, so easily.

ATC failed to tell them that they are coming down without gear down, they failed to tell them that they have scrapped the engine badly and they failed to tell them about the flames, I don't think that there were any problems with instruments, from take off till start of landing everything was going smoothly, with multiple checks, altitude and vector changes at time of take off it would have been identified. Don't think anything was wrong with the aircraft, Just my 2 cents

 

[Mastankhan]

ATC failed to tell them that they are coming down without gear down, they failed to tell them that they have scrapped the engine badly and they failed to tell them about the flames, I don't think that there were any problems with instruments, from take off till start of landing everything was going smoothly, with multiple checks, altitude and vector changes at time of take off it would have been identified. Don't think anything was wrong with the aircraft, Just my 2 cents

Hi,

It was a bright and clear day---. If there was no ATC at karachi airport---any reasonable pilot flying that aircraft would have landed that aircraft without any incidence---.

I want to look into the video of pilots boarding the aircraft---did they have covid type masks on---.

Blaming ATC is showing ignorance---.

 

[baqai]

Hi,

It was a bright and clear day---. If there was no ATC at karachi airport---any reasonable pilot flying that aircraft would have landed that aircraft without any incidence---.

I want to look into the video of pilots boarding the aircraft---did they have covid type masks on---.

Blaming ATC is showing ignorance---.

Sorry sir i will disagree, it is part of ATC's responsibility to ensure safety of aircrafts when it comes under his/her airspace, even if 99% was pilot's fault it was wrong on ATC's part to notice plane coming down hot without gears down and scrapping the runway with flames, at that given point nothing could have done

 

[Counter-Errorist]

Sorry sir i will disagree, it is part of ATC's responsibility to ensure safety of aircrafts when it comes under his/her airspace, even if 99% was pilot's fault it was wrong on ATC's part to notice plane coming down hot without gears down and scrapping the runway with flames, at that given point nothing could have done

Sorry if this is a stupid question - does ATC visually monitor incoming aircrafts? I was under the impression their eyes are pinned upon computer screens monitoring radar, weather, etc.

And if that is the case where an ATC personal has a clear view of incoming aircrafts, why isn't there a CCTV camera installed at the same location. The grainy pic of the one CCTV snapshot we got meant that it was very far away.

 

[baqai]

if pilot declares gear problem than it's mandatory for them to monitor it, correct me if i am wrong, in normal situations it is part of their job to scan the incoming and out going traffic periodically

 

[Zeeman]

Pilots with fake degrees include mostly union members including their spokesperson Capt. Qasim Qadir.

“The pilots include 141 from Pakistan International Airlines (PIA), nine from Air Blue and 10 from Serene Air, Sarwar said, adding that the remaining were affiliated with flying clubs, chartered plane services or foreign airlines.
The minister said that the airlines and clubs had been conveyed that “their [pilots'] credentials are dubious, and they shouldn't be allowed to fly", adding that the names of all the pilots had also been put up on the Civil Aviation Authority's website. "These pilots against whom inquiries are being conducted were all recruited before 2018," Khan said, referring to the start of the incumbent government's tenure. "Let me also make clear that after 2018, we did not make any new inductions in PIA or the aviation division or conduct any exams, so whatever this is, it is from the last two terms," he added.

 

[Counter-Errorist]

Pilots with fake degrees include mostly union members including their spokesperson Capt. Qasim Qadir.

“The pilots include 141 from Pakistan International Airlines (PIA), nine from Air Blue and 10 from Serene Air, Sarwar said, adding that the remaining were affiliated with flying clubs, chartered plane services or foreign airlines.
The minister said that the airlines and clubs had been conveyed that “their [pilots'] credentials are dubious, and they shouldn't be allowed to fly", adding that the names of all the pilots had also been put up on the Civil Aviation Authority's website. "These pilots against whom inquiries are being conducted were all recruited before 2018," Khan said, referring to the start of the incumbent government's tenure. "Let me also make clear that after 2018, we did not make any new inductions in PIA or the aviation division or conduct any exams, so whatever this is, it is from the last two terms," he added.

They also need to track down everyone involved in induction of these pilots. Go deeper, interview pilots to find out what "qualifications" were requested from them and by whom. Pulling up this chain could net some big fish. Though I doubt there's anyone capable of gutting those fish.

 

[Zeeman]

PIA unions can make anything possible. Not playing politics but a parch from PML/PPP politicians can do wonders....even put you in the cockpit.