Acquisition of J-15 for PAF- Air Superiority & Deep Strike Platfrom

[Khafee]

samajh nahi araha kons

samajh nahi araha konsi zaban me gali du

This time I wont hold you back. In any language that @TomCat can understand, pls feel free to do so.

 

[TomCat]

samajh nahi araha kons

samajh nahi araha konsi zaban me gali du

Kaise aaega samajh
Is bheriye ko maaf kardo, lomri aane wali hai

 

[Zulu]

Please do in all languages u rem and in unlimited quantity on behalf of whole forum.Jo jo bhi yaad haii aap dy du issay zayee nahi jayee gii. special types par meri taraf sy +1 pakka i promise

samajh nahi araha kons

samajh nahi araha konsi zaban me gali du

 

[Signalian]

A casual look at both naval fleets shows your point is a patriotic one and not based on reality I'm afraid. And now I'd like to end this conversation before it gets to how my analysis is similar to x, y and z Indian statement. Thank you.

The diverse nature of missiles/weapons that PN possesses, its not out gunned by IN and its further complimented by PAF. You may disagree, i have no issues with that. You are hell bent on proving my point as a patriot, so be it. I am putting my points forward based on PN/PAF inventory.

 

[TomCat]

 

[Signalian]

The JF-17 was designed for PAF requirements, not for PN requirements. It has very limited range and payload that makes its use highly restricted in the maritime battle. It takes understanding of naval warfare to appreciate this. An army man or even an air force man will have limited understanding of naval warfare.

JF-17 has been integrated with Naval warfare weapons to compliment Naval operations for Pakistan Navy. PAF had acquired Mirage-V and then inducted F-16 to provide air cover for Naval Ops, therefore it would not be naive to say that PAF had kept Naval ops on board when JF-17 was being negotiated with Chinese.

I understand that you are not from army, air force or navy neither do you have any military background, so limited knowledge in all three warfare aspects shows.

One cannot also claim "we are professionals". If you are professionals, so may be your enemies. Not everything works like a bollywood movie that you overcome all odds with your heroism. No serious professional ever talks like that.

Since you have no military background, its best not to pass comments when you have no idea what happens in Ops rooms or HQs.

Combat radius for a fighter is, by rule of thumb, one third that of range. This takes into account perhaps a few minutes of time on station, and mainly a2a loads. With heavy and bulky loads, this decreases further.

This by itself preculdes the JF-17 from being useful in any way or form in protecting SLOCs (a term I had to introduce as it seemed some others have no clue about it, and kept erroneously discussing this term in ways that is ridiculous and fantasy driven).

Naval warfare depends much greater on sustained presence than air warfare. This again precludes the JF-17 in many ways. Again, all these technical issues are not even understood by half baked analysis so common on the internet.

Right now Pakistani F-22Ps will be heading out to war against IN destroyers and frigates (let alone aircraft carriers and Brahmos equiped FLANKERS). If this is not being outgunned, I don't know what is. Again, patriotism gets the better of some and causes them to be left without meaningful argument and ends in ad hominems.

It's easy to write analysis based on internet videos and information scattered around google. Like i had said before, the planners in Military domain do not need internet analysts to teach them how to fight an adversary.

 

[Signalian]

The JF-17 was designed for PAF requirements, not for PN requirements. It has very limited range and payload that makes its use highly restricted in the maritime battle. It takes understanding of naval warfare to appreciate this. An army man or even an air force man will have limited understanding of naval warfare.

One cannot also claim "we are professionals". If you are professionals, so may be your enemies. Not everything works like a bollywood movie that you overcome all odds with your heroism. No serious professional ever talks like that.

Combat radius for a fighter is, by rule of thumb, one third that of range. This takes into account perhaps a few minutes of time on station, and mainly a2a loads. With heavy and bulky loads, this decreases further.

This by itself preculdes the JF-17 from being useful in any way or form in protecting SLOCs (a term I had to introduce as it seemed some others have no clue about it, and kept erroneously discussing this term in ways that is ridiculous and fantasy driven).

Naval warfare depends much greater on sustained presence than air warfare. This again precludes the JF-17 in many ways. Again, all these technical issues are not even understood by half baked analysis so common on the internet.

Right now Pakistani F-22Ps will be heading out to war against IN destroyers and frigates (let alone aircraft carriers and Brahmos equiped FLANKERS). If this is not being outgunned, I don't know what is. Again, patriotism gets the better of some and causes them to be left without meaningful argument and ends in ad hominems.

I have to add that from your statements, it clearly shows that you have no idea what so ever about JF-17 and its program. Please have a look at the JF-17 videos posted by a member in another thread. That should also give a clue how PAF thinks and works. Its heart breaking to see an analyst talking about a PAF aircraft having no clue about it. I think you need to dig in and do a lot of research about all three military branches since you are posting o a defence forum - Army, Navy and Air Force.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

View attachment 14511

That's not a Chinese in the cockpit but that's an indian bison in the back....

@Khafee, Tomcat playing with our emotions again

 

[Signalian]

A casual look at both naval fleets shows your point is a patriotic one and not based on reality I'm afraid. And now I'd like to end this conversation before it gets to how my analysis is similar to x, y and z Indian statement. Thank you.

Yeah and one more point which googling internet warriors need to to know about Military before they talk about weapons:

The weapon induction/Ops planning of every military and then its branches are different. This weapon induction/Ops planning is developed through many factors like training, doctrines, weapon induction, courses, skirmishes and wars etc. Anybody who is or has been affiliated with any military branch is aware of this.

What you completely fail to understand is that you just cannot start commenting about the requirement without understanding the ins and outs of that Military. For example: everyone online talks about f-22 or F-35, basically USAF aircrafts, but do they know what purpose and why these aircrafts have been inducted in US Armed Forces. Similarly, during training or war gaming or grooming of military personnel, they are taught about adversary and weapons used by them which they may face in combat.

Any Tom Dick Harry can talk about any weapon online. But to understand how that weapon will be utilised is sometimes mentioned in media and other times it is on planning board and comes as a surprise during war.

You can talk about BAF, since you are Bengali origin, but i doubt you would even be knowing about BAF since your background is not military. I had course mates from Pakistan Navy, we were together for years on courses, so you coming online and labelling me that i wouldn't know about Navy is BULL really. Similarly, I talk about Indian weapons and forces because Pakistan's main adversary is India. @Khafee may want to disclose stuff, i choose not to at many times and this is another reason i stopped starting threads on Pakistan's military on any forum since a long time. I don't talk about BAF/BA/BN even though i have met and personally know Bangladesh Armed forces personnel, yet i have not been into BAF HQs or BA HQs personally neither trained with them so i would only know what i hear or read online, just like you are doing about Pakistan Armed Forces. Since you don't know much about PA, PAF and PN, its better that you start learning before you start posting.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

^^^ I'm not a fan of that last paragraph that was a low blow and should be deleted. Armchair has shown how he feels about Pakistan and PA. There is no doubt that he wouldn't ever say ill about both if it were baseless.

PN is and will be a fishing fleet compared to IN. UNLESS and UNTIl it gets its new acquisitions. Even after then, there will be a long way to go before it can pose any real threat to india and IN. Right now all it can do is defense.

Same goes for PAF, it has limitations and can not go deep into india whereas india can target any corner of Pakistan it wants to. How they get there is a completely different argument but ignoring that capability is shooting oneself in the foot. They also have the numbers and technology to do so.

It is incredibly foolish to underestimate your opponent in any circumstances. When fighting an ant one must prepare like fighting an elephant.

Again you resorted to logical fallacies and brought his nationality into the argument. That's when you start losing credibility.

@Armchair I as a Pakistani apologize he probably meant well but worded it wrong.

 

[Mumin]

Yeah and one more point which googling internet warriors need to to know about Military before they talk about weapons:

The weapon induction/Ops planning of every military and then its branches are different. This weapon induction/Ops planning is developed through many factors like training, doctrines, weapon induction, courses, skirmishes and wars etc. Anybody who is or has been affiliated with any military branch is aware of this.

What you completely fail to understand is that you just cannot start commenting about the requirement without understanding the ins and outs of that Military. For example: everyone online talks about f-22 or F-35, basically USAF aircrafts, but do they know what purpose and why these aircrafts have been inducted in US Armed Forces. Similarly, during training or war gaming or grooming of military personnel, they are taught about adversary and weapons used by them which they may face in combat.

Any Tom Dick Harry can talk about any weapon online. But to understand how that weapon will be utilised is sometimes mentioned in media and other times it is on planning board and comes as a surprise during war.

You can talk about BAF, since you are Bengali origin, but i doubt you would even be knowing about BAF since your background is not military. I had course mates from Pakistan Navy, we were together for years on courses, so you coming online and labelling me that i wouldn't know about Navy is BULL really. Similarly, I talk about Indian weapons and forces because Pakistan's main adversary is India. @Khafee may want to disclose stuff, i choose not to at many times and this is another reason i stopped starting threads on Pakistan's military on any forum since a long time. I don't talk about BAF/BA/BN even though i have met and personally know Bangladesh Armed forces personnel, yet i have not been into BAF HQs or BA HQs personally neither trained with them so i would only know what i hear or read online, just like you are doing about Pakistan Armed Forces. Since you don't know much about PA, PAF and PN, its better that you start learning before you start posting.

Without giving any credible source of anything you basically lost the argument. You took it to the extreme to insult him, beating your own drum that you do know everything in this planet and rest are Tom dick and Harry. I don’t believe Pakistan has the light sabre that counter each and everything India has. Good luck with your knowledge and wisdom

 

[Safri167]

^^^ I'm not a fan of that last paragraph that was a low blow and should be deleted. Armchair has shown how he feels about Pakistan and PA. There is no doubt that he wouldn't ever say ill about both if it were baseless.

PN is and will be a fishing fleet compared to IN. UNLESS and UNTIl it gets its new acquisitions. Even after then, there will be a long way to go before it can pose any real threat to india and IN. Right now all it can do is defense.

Same goes for PAF, it has limitations and can not go deep into india whereas india can target any corner of Pakistan it wants to. How they get there is a completely different argument but ignoring that capability is shooting oneself in the foot. They also have the numbers and technology to do so.

It is incredibly foolish to underestimate your opponent in any circumstances. When fighting an ant one must prepare like fighting an elephant.

Again you resorted to logical fallacies and brought his nationality into the argument. That's when you start losing credibility.

@Armchair I as a Pakistani apologize he probably meant well but worded it wrong.

How dare bloody civilians talk on defence matters!!
First they should be posted to HQs then they can talk and write.
When logic ends, humans resort to their originals.
Sorry bro it's below the belt @Armchair

 

[Thorough Pro]

@Signalian

It's a subtle OSINT attempt, no you won't get any "credible source" for any confidential info....LOL

Without giving any credible source of anything you basically lost the argument. You took it to the extreme to insult him, beating your own drum that you do know everything in this planet and rest are Tom dick and Harry. I don’t believe Pakistan has the light sabre that counter each and everything India has. Good luck with your knowledge and wisdom

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

How dare bloody civilians talk on defence matters!!
First they should be posted to HQs then they can talk and write.
When logic ends, humans resort to their originals.
Sorry bro it's below the belt @Armchair

If PA was filled with people that displayed such arrogance then Pakistan would have fell a long time ago. Thank God they dont

 

[Safri167]

Shenyang resumes production of carrier-borne J-15 fighters
by Juan Ju Jun 10, 2020, 15:56 PM

Images released on 21 February in an announcement by the Shenyang Aircraft Company (SAC), a subsidiary of the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), indicate...

Images released on 21 February in an announcement by the Shenyang Aircraft Company (SAC), a subsidiary of the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), indicate that the manufacturer has resumed production of its carrier-borne J-15 multirole fighter aircraft.

Images released by SAC on 21 February show a J-15 fighter aircraft in green primer, suggesting that the company has resumed production of the aircraft type. The text on the image states, among other things, ‘full resumption of production’. (AVIC/SAC)

Shenyang resumes production of carrier-borne J-15 fighters

Images released on 21 February in an announcement by the Shenyang Aircraft Company (SAC), a subsidiary of the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), indicate...

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