Acquisition of J-15 for PAF- Air Superiority & Deep Strike Platfrom | Page 130 | World Defense

Acquisition of J-15 for PAF- Air Superiority & Deep Strike Platfrom

Armchair

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I'm estimating a combat radius of 1,200 km for the J-15. This is a ball park figure. Not as impressive, roughly will give similar combat ranges as an F-16 with heavier payload capabilities.
 

Armchair

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Can you please come off your high horse and start acting like a forum member rather than some teacher beating up small children. It is not appreciated. We have knowledgeable members as wdll as young ones. Your manerism will discourage the young ones from asking questions and learning.
For the question of JFT yes it is not ideal for naval warfare but when you dont have anything else you do what you can. You have also very conveniently forgotten the AAR for JFT which will increase its loitering time as well as range. Modern day A2S missiles also have become more accurate and lethal thereby reducing the need for having a bomb truck.
You have also alluded to the F22 but not realized what the dilemma/for PN was. What other platforms were eing sold around that time? And which ones were open for PN to buy? The chinese were not willing to sell us 054 at that time and there was no mature VLS bearing platform that could have been acquired without breaking the bank, which may I remind you did not have access to either. 22s hqve a plan for upgrade but you are well aware of the complications of this endeavour. So give it some time and see what PN does. PN is not going to pitch its surface fleet against the might of IN but rely on subsurface assets apong with air assets.
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A

Hi Araz, thank you for telling me to get off my high horse. Not sure if that helps this conversation. We have a professional who demonstrably does not know the basics of naval warfare making broad statements and when disagreed - claims my statements are like Indian statements.

If you look at his posts (and I can quote them extensively if you like), he demonstrates he has no idea about basic PN requirements, basic ideas about SLOCs. I've politely tried to explain them but his reaction has been ad hominem.

An educated person is one who knows the limits of their knowledge. This professional doesn't. He makes factually inaccurate statements and claims PN is so superior professionally to the IN that massive disparity in forces would allow PN to overcome them.

Yet, he is not even a naval officer. And if hypothetically he was, how can a PN officer know how professional or unprofessional the IN is? This whole conversation ends up in ridiculous absurdity.

Saying Pakistani naval warships today are not outgunned - is childish. It shows that this PA former officer is not professional and does not have a grip on reality. Which itself is evidence contrary to the one he is making - that Pak armed forces are so professional that even after being massively outnumbered and outgunned as the PN is - they can somehow pull of an upset.

If Pak military officers are a reflection of this kind of childish mindset, one can only pray for the next war. Sun Tzu states:

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

Where does that leave Pakistan armed forces professionalism?

Instead of telling me to get off my high horse and me telling you to get off your high horse, why not have a constructive, pleasant conversation like mature adults? Rather accusations of sounding like an Indian statement or weak convictions that elicit emotional responses.
 

Armchair

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Pakistan has 4 dual use transport / AAR platforms, and 3 PAF air commands. So, what our good friend Araz is suggesting is PAF dedicating all AAR assets to keep JF-17s airborne to protect SLOCS many nautical miles away from Pakistani shores.

This would allow a handful of JF-17s to remain refueled to protect SLOCs, while dedicating the entire AAR capacity to this task.

How would a handful of JF-17s hold out against large numbers of IAF FLANKERS and aircraft carrier borne MiG-29s?

Every time they engage, they have to fly back, refueling on their way in or/and out.

Who will protect these AAR assets? More JF-17s? How will they loiter nearby? Refuel from the tankers? That would reduce the handful of aircraft that the AAR platforms can sustain.

Go to any professional forum of non desis and ask them how realistic or practical this scenario is. They will get you off your high horse real quick.

Any neutral naval professional will tell you PN is outnumbered and outgunned. That they will not be able to maintain SLOCs. That the best they can do is protect their shores. That's it. Rest of these unqualified opinions simply make Pakistani military professionals look bad.
 

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When we suggest MIRAGES replacement, main thing people say it's not the replacement and the reasons they give is dual engine and also J 15 or J 16 can carry BVR and few others. I am not that big of an aviation expert but I have some common sense. In my opinion other than huge monstrous strategic bombers like B 1 and B 52 of USA and the ones used by Russia and China every jet should have BVR I mean jets like SU 34 or J 16 or F 15 EX. Because when bombing the shit out of your enemy you should have weaponry to engage enemy jets in the Air also.

And as for single engine and dual engine issue, as world is entering the era of 5th and soon 6th Generation you simply can't stick to single engine policy for long now.
 

Khafee

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When we suggest MIRAGES replacement, main thing people say it's not the replacement and the reasons they give is dual engine and also J 15 or J 16 can carry BVR and few others. I am not that big of an aviation expert but I have some common sense. In my opinion other than huge monstrous strategic bombers like B 1 and B 52 of USA and the ones used by Russia and China every jet should have BVR I mean jets like SU 34 or J 16 or F 15 EX. Because when bombing the shit out of your enemy you should have weaponry to engage enemy jets in the Air also.

And as for single engine and dual engine issue, as world is entering the era of 5th and soon 6th Generation you simply can't stick to single engine policy for long now.
There is something else to consider besides 4 decades old single engine a/c's that need air cover to operate - The valuable lives of the pilots.

If ONE is lost, you cant pick another one from the trnspt fleet and throw him into a fighter jet and send him on his merry way. Forget training one from scratch.

They spend hundreds of hours in OCU Sqdns, refine tactics, till it becomes the equivalent of muscle memory, split second decisions have to be right, or invaluable lives could be lost. It is a very painstaking and lengthy process.
 

War Historian

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There is something else to consider besides 4 decades old single engine a/c's that need air cover to operate - The valuable lives of the pilots.

If ONE is lost, you cant pick another one from the trnspt fleet and throw him into a fighter jet and send him on his merry way. Forget training one from scratch.

They spend hundreds of hours in OCU Sqdns, refine tactics, till it becomes the equivalent of muscle memory, split second decisions have to be right, or invaluable lives could be lost. It is a very painstaking and lengthy process.
Pilot is precious than the 5 decade old fighter jets.ask the family who loss their beloved one in this coffins called mirages
 

Counter-Errorist

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There is something else to consider besides 4 decades old single engine a/c's that need air cover to operate - The valuable lives of the pilots.

If ONE is lost, you cant pick another one from the trnspt fleet and throw him into a fighter jet and send him on his merry way. Forget training one from scratch.

They spend hundreds of hours in OCU Sqdns, refine tactics, till it becomes the equivalent of muscle memory, split second decisions have to be right, or invaluable lives could be lost. It is a very painstaking and lengthy process.
Not to mention that these pilots will grow up to be commodores, AVM and AMs someday. Without these top guns, the future of PAF leadership will be in jeopardy.
 

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When we suggest MIRAGES replacement, main thing people say it's not the replacement and the reasons they give is dual engine and also J 15 or J 16 can carry BVR and few others
They also give some other weird reasons like.
Why would you send a 60mil worth of a jet on a bombing mission when you can do the same with a Mirage.
PAF has a local rebuild facility and they don't want to fire those hundreds of workers.
PAF has decades of experience and tactics on mirage and they don't wanna waste it. etc
The main reason why PAF isn't retiring Mirages is because they don't have money. It's not that they are completely obsolete. Mirages can actually be a very good platform for unguided bombing in a full-scale war after the removal of air defense systems. But expecting them to intrude in Indian air space where there are S300s, S400s like air defence systems or target the Indian Naval assets while facing the upgraded Mig29s with HMD and bvr missiles where our Mirages have little to no EW capabilities. Looks overconfidence to me.
 
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Jf-17 Raad intergation????
 

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MIRauf

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They also give some other weird reasons like.
Why would you send a 60mil worth of a jet on a bombing mission when you can do the same with a Mirage.
PAF has a local rebuild facility and they don't want to fire those hundreds of workers.
PAF has decades of experience and tactics on mirage and they don't wanna waste it. etc
The main reason why PAF isn't retiring Mirages is because they don't have money. It's not that they are completely obsolete. Mirages can actually be a very good platform for unguided bombing in a full-scale war after the removal of air defense systems. But expecting them to intrude in Indian air space where there are S300s, S400s like air defence systems or target the Indian Naval assets while facing the upgraded Mig29s with HMD and bvr missiles where our Mirages have little to no EW capabilities. Looks overconfidence to me.

Bottom line, Package. M3/5 won't be alone, these vintage birds are performing their task rather well in PAF service compared to what IAF has tried with Jags and other vintage Ruskie planes.

Try not to look at individual pieces on the chess board rather collective stack.
 

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Hi,

I think that you are mistaking that or this for a social gathering forum---. This a weapons world----. We talk about death and destruction and annihilation of the enemy in multiple different manners thru different weapons.

We are talking about the decimation of the enemy---.

There is no place for a " DOWN TO EARTH GUY" when discussing weapons and how we will use them in finishing off the enemy---.
Buddy bunch of civie's making discussion assumptions and trying to prove each other wrong is a social gathering because at night all of us go to bed and sleep without a worry.


Down to earth but DEADLY.
 
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