Acquisition of J-15 for PAF- Air Superiority & Deep Strike Platfrom

[TsAr]

I haven't seen any. @Gripen9 @TsAr @Counter-Errorist or some other more knowledgeable member could shed more light on this.

They are still used for protection of some high security military establishments against low flying objects

 

[Khafee]

They are still used for protection of some high security military establishments against low flying objects

During Gen Zia R.A.'s tenure saw them at Khauta

 

[!eon]

During Gen Zia R.A.'s tenure saw them at Khauta

Me too, have seen in Kahuta, but much latter than Gen Zia's era.

 

[Syed Hammad Ahmed]

And CNS told you this himself?

No sir But I think this would be the case

 

[Khafee]

No sir But I think this would be the case

There are a lot of ways of using an A/c carrier without owning one. Use your imagination.

 

[Scorpio]

Hi,

All strike aircraft have low flying capabilities---. .

It just depends on what you want to use them against---how far your target is---how you are going to get there and what route are your going to take---what king of a load are you carrying and how much of it---.

Where are your enemy assets that will be looking for you---if they are over the water---how far are they willing to come out over the water and still feel secure to detect you and have you engaged by their aircraft.

Then sir we have something in this area as mitsge 5

 

[Scorpio]

There are a lot of ways of using an A/c carrier without owning one. Use your imagination.

Rent a parking space on chinese aircraft carrier for long term. I am right sir @Khafee ?

 

[Gripen9]

During Gen Zia R.A.'s tenure saw them at Khauta

Still deployed in Kahuta Valley against low flying aircraft. There are 2-3 ingress points to the valley that are protected with Balloons. But with the advent of accurate standoff weapons, they are somewhat obsolete. Other than IAF Jaguars, I don't see any extremely low flying strikes.

 

[TsAr]

Still deployed in Kahuta Valley against low flying aircraft. There are 2-3 ingress points to the valley that are protected with Balloons. But with the advent of accurate standoff weapons, they are somewhat obsolete. Other than IAF Jaguars, I don't see any extremely low flying strikes.

They will also work against drones

 

[Gripen9]

Khafee,

If my information is correct---an aircraft flying at 500 ft above the waves and 450 miles paralell to the enemy coastline---the enemy awacs would have to come out about 250 miles and the awacs would be flying at an altitude of 40000 feet to find the low flying air crafts---.

" So, at 10,000 feet you can see 122 miles, at 30,000 feet you can see 211 miles, and at 40,000 feet you can see 244 miles. Of course, if you look "above" the horizon, you can see the sun at 93,000,000 miles and at night, even further, to the stars ".

Khafee,

I think GCC needs to invest more in naval air combat flight & strike tactics and so does Paf---.

There is a reason why the US does not use its air force for naval missions---it has its own naval air force---.

Fighting over water is a different war game and planning---. Being Land animals---fighting over land---the combat tactics and training comes to us naturally---.

Fighting over water is a different kind of beast---with its own different set of rules and combat training and tactics and strike options---.

What about Over the Horizon Radars? Look up TPS-71 & Jindalee. These are low frequency radars that can detect both surface and low flying aircraft at thousands of miles. The radar waves hug the curvature.

Also, flying constantly for multiple hours at high speed is very dangerous and strenuous. Especially with a moving surface underneath.
The last western dedicated low level interdiction aircraft built was Panavia Tornado GR4. RAF employed them in that role during Desert Storm for the first 2 weeks and suffered the most losses. It had to reluctantly switch to medium altitude standoff tactics afterwards to avoid casualties.

British Fliers Suffering Higher Rate of Losses : Combat: Analysts cite the Royal Air Force's daring style and its hazardous mission as causes.

British pilots, renowned for flying extremely low and fast at their targets, are suffering dramatically higher casualty rates than their American counterparts in Gulf War missions.

www.latimes.com

 

[Khafee]

What about Over the Horizon Radars? Look up TPS-71 & Jindalee. These are low frequency radars that can detect both surface and low flying aircraft at thousands of miles. The radar waves hug the curvature.

Also, flying constantly for multiple hours at high speed is very dangerous and strenuous. Especially with a moving surface underneath.
The last western dedicated low level interdiction aircraft built was Panavia Tornado GR4. RAF employed them in that role during Desert Storm for the first 2 weeks and suffered the most losses. It had to reluctantly switch to medium altitude standoff tactics afterwards to avoid casualties.

British Fliers Suffering Higher Rate of Losses : Combat: Analysts cite the Royal Air Force's daring style and its hazardous mission as causes.

British pilots, renowned for flying extremely low and fast at their targets, are suffering dramatically higher casualty rates than their American counterparts in Gulf War missions.

www.latimes.com

Tornado forecast
10 December 1997

In the Gulf War, the RAF used the Tornado GR1 in a variety of roles, including offensive counter-air, air-interdiction, suppression of enemy air defence, and tactical reconnaissance. After initially deploying the aircraft at low level, the service switched to a medium-level campaign, revealing what air force sources describe as "a number of sub-optimal areas". The GR1's sensors, for instance, were optimised for low-level operation. Medium-level operations revealed a problem of " poor target acquisition with radar".

Limitations addressed

The GR1's limitations in the medium-level role were addressed by rushing into the field two pre-production GEC-Marconi Thermal Imaging Airborne Laser Designator (TIALD) pods to supplement the Pavespike designators already deployed on Blackburn Buccaneers.

The MLU programme also became ensnared in the then Conservative Government's apparently rolling defence reviews, with Treasury officials viewing the project as a "big, big target". This resulted in a much-reduced scope for the MLU, the most visible element to suffer being the GEC Spartan TRN, which was deleted from the programme. Originally costed at around £1 billion ($1.6 billion), the eventual budget was cut to £750 million.

Ditching the TRN deprived the GR4 of an all-weather, night-covert-penetration capability because the FLIR is weather dependent, while the NVGs require adequate ambient light. Given certain conditions, a GR4 crew will have to resort to the active-emitter TFR to prosecute a mission at low level.

The FLIR/NVG combination, however, will allow RAF Tornado units a more flexible approach in planning night missions. With the GR1, mission planning was heavily based around timing and track lines: with the GR4 crews will be able to use more day-formation-like tactics. The RAFis also looking at using the FLIR to allow night medium-level dive attacks.

The effect of these pressures has forced the RAF to "revisit MLU 88". Offsetting the deletion of the TRN, a global-positioning system (GPS) and a TIALD pod were added to the new package, dubbed MLU 93.

This package was eventually approved in 1994, covering the upgrade of 142 aircraft to GR4 standard. An initial service date of 1998 was specified.

One of the problems facing prime contractor British Aerospace, which was awarded the MLU contract in mid-1994, was the Tornado fleet mix. The RAF operates seven different modification standards of Tornado GR1, which it admits has resulted in "supportability problems". One of the side benefits of the MLU will be to bring all of the GR4s to the same baseline standard, with the exception of the reconnaissance GR4A's infra-red linescan system.

Before being delivered to Warton, all of the 142 aircraft to be upgraded will go to RAF St Athan for what is described as a pre-input maintenance programme, to bring them all to a common standard.

A total of 17 Tornado GR1s will have been returned for upgrades at BAe Warton by the end of this year, and work will be carried out on more than 20 aircraft a year from 1998 up to the completion of the programme.

Since the MLU was set in train, the Ministry of Defence has also placed contracts for several weapons for which the GR4 is a key platform: SR(A) 1242 for the Texas Instruments Paveway III laser-guided bomb, SR(A)1236 for the Matra BAe Dynamics Storm Shadow stand-off missile and SR(A) 1238 for the GEC-Marconi Brimstone anti-armour missile .

The Paveway III, with the TIALD400 Series pod, six-channel video and full integration of the Matra BAe Sea Eagle, are included in an additional GR4 work project, Package 1. The Storm Shadow, Brimstone and the Hughes RAPTOR reconnaissance pod are included in Package 2.

Beyond this, Packages 3 and 4 are also envisaged to cover such areas as the possible introduction of a missile-approach warning system, successor identification friend or foe, as well as a version of the Joint Tactical Information Distribution System (JTIDS). The JTIDS is being introduced on the Tornado F3 air-defence aircraft first. A hands-on-throttle-and-stick modification may also eventually find its way on to the GR4.

Decoy possibility

The Tornado GR4 may also receive the Miniature Air-Launched Decoy as well as whichever system emerges to meet the RAF's requirement for an improved-accuracy free-fall bomb - although whether this requirement is eventually addressed by purchasing GPS-based modification kits, or an off-the-shelf purchase of the Boeing Joint Direct Attack Munition, remains to be seen. The aircraft may also be fitted with the GEC Marconi towed radar decoy.

Alongside the RAF's GR4 programme, the Royal Saudi Air Force (RSAF) may also implement a similar upgrade for its Tornado Interdictor Strike fleet.

The RSAF has been briefed by both the RAF and the MoD on the project.

As well as the GR4 upgrade, the Saudis are also interested in purchasing both a short-range tactical air-launched anti-armour weapon, and a long-range precision strike missile. The Brimstone and the Storm Shadow are being considered to fulfil these requirements.

The RAF's present planned out-of-service date for its Tornado GR4 fleet is 2018, although there are those close to the programme who firmly believe that the aircraft will stay in service beyond 2020, before it is eventually replaced by the Future Offensive Air System, whatever this eventually turns out to be.

******************************************************************************************************************************************

Saudi Arabia reveals progress of Tornado upgrade
By Craig Hoyle
18 September 2007

While reports of Saudi Arabia's imminent order for 72 Eurofighter Typhoons dominated the headlines, eight of the nation's Panavia Tornado fighters were taking part in a low-profile exercise with the UK Royal Air Force. Originally named "Saudi Sword" but later rebranded "Saudi Green Flag", the bilateral manoeuvres marked the first time Riyadh had sent its Tornados outside the Gulf region, and were also evidence of a burgeoning relationship between the allies, which have both operated the swing-wing aircraft for more than two decades but formally trained together on the type for the first time only last year.

Movement towards the delayed Typhoon contract signature has grabbed the headlines following controversy over the UK's previous Al Yamamah arms deals with Saudi Arabia, which have included the delivery of equipment such as Tornado interdictor strike and air defence variant fighters and BAE Systems Hawk trainers. Less well known is that the government-to-government framework continues to generate fresh activity on the Royal Saudi Air Force's legacy fleet, with until now closely-guarded modernisation work having already been done to its Tornado IDS aircraft.

For the first time, the air force has disclosed details of its ongoing Tornado Sustainment Programme (TSP), and revealed that the aircraft which visited the UK have already completed the first phase of the major upgrade effort. Poised to enter its second phase of modernisation work in Saudi Arabia, the ongoing effort will ultimately equip the IDS fleet with a range of new precision-guided weapons and enhanced targeting equipment, in many cases common with those systems already fielded by the UK Royal Air Force's Tornado GR4s, up to six of which took place in the event.

"All the aircraft on the exercise are TSP stage one-modified, and stage two will come soon," said Lt Col Abdulaziz Al Qdairi, officer commanding the RSAF's 75 Sqn and the service's Green Flag detachment commander, during an exclusive interview with Flight International at RAF Lossiemouth, Scotland. Performed in Saudi Arabia by local companies working in partnership with BAE, initial enhancements to the aircraft have focused on cockpit modernisation, such as the addition of GPS navigation, changes to some displays and switches and the introduction of a new radio architecture, said Al Qdairi.

While such work has assisted the air force in deploying its aircraft over a long distance and operating under a coalition scenario with the RAF, a key aspect of the Green Flag deployment was to give its crews the opportunity to train alongside aircraft from the UK service's 617 Sqn, which recently returned from an intensive period of combat operations over Iraq. Riyadh hoped to draw early lessons from the unit's experience in using advanced targeting and reconnaissance pods, plus precision-guided weapons, while it finalises its equipment list for the next element of the TSP project.

Saudi development aircraft based at BAE's Warton flight test site in Lancashire were photographed earlier this year carrying a wide array of sensors and weapons, including MBDA's more than 250km (135nm)-range Storm Shadow cruise missile.

Riyadh has also long been cited as a potential buyer of the RAF's next-generation precision-guided bomb - Raytheon Systems' Paveway IV - and MBDA's Brimstone air-launched anti-armour weapon, the latter of which played an important part in the latest exercise.

"TSP is upgrading the aircraft so that it will be capable of carrying any advanced weapons available not only Brimstone and Storm Shadow," said Al Qdairi, adding that other potential acquisitions could include Paveway/Enhanced Paveway-series bombs and an air-to-air missile such as MBDA's Asraam. "We hope we will have such as these to make sure our air force has the latest weapons and technology." The goal is to reach the stage that the RAF is currently using with its GR4s," he continued.

While flying activities during Green Flag ran between 28 August and 6 September, the first advance elements of the more than 200-strong Saudi detachment arrived at Lossiemouth on 13 August, with initial support equipment and its first fighters following within a further five days. In addition to testing the RSAF's ability to deploy its Tornados from Dhahran, the exercise also provided an ideal opportunity for the RSAF to test the capabilities of its air transport fleet, with numerous sorties flown using its Boeing KE-3A tanker/transports and Lockheed Martin C-130s.

"The deployment was a lot of hard work, but easier than we expected," said Al Qdairi. The deployment route included inflight refuelling by KC-130s before departing Saudi airspace, followed by stops at Suda Bay in Greece, Trapani in Italy and RAF Marham in the UK. The air force sent a total of 18 Tornado crews to participate in the exercise, with the majority of these also gaining a first chance to fly alongside RAF Typhoons.

The RAF says more than 65 sorties were flown by the end of the exercise, with up to two waves of aircraft having been launched each day. Missions typically lasted around 90min, with no inflight refuelling conducted during the bilateral manoeuvres. Saudi personnel also used Thales-managed simulators at Lossiemouth as part of their training.

Operations began with familiarisation flights during which two RSAF aircraft accompanied an RAF Tornado while their crews were introduced to UK airspace and air traffic control procedures, and also cleared to perform initial low-level work down to 500ft (152m). Activities were progressively expanded to introduce bombing runs at the Tain weapons range using 3kg (6.6lb) practice bombs, and to operate against simulated surface-to-air missile threats at the UK's Spadeadam electronic warfare range.

Examples of composite air operations during this period included the joint Tornado force conducting training attacks with RAF aircraft simulating the use of MBDA Alarm anti-radiation missiles - in use by both air forces - while Saudi aircraft conducted air strikes. In a key demonstration of possible future weapons tactics, the sorties also involved several UK Tornados carrying two Brimstone weapon systems, with each comprising a rail launcher with three missiles.

The last three flying days also introduced an air-to-air threat, with four Typhoons flown by 3 Sqn pilots from RAF Coningsby in Lincolnshire initially providing a "hostile" presence. Exercise activity peaked on 5 September with a VIP demonstration involving a "blue" force of six Saudi IDS, four GR4s and four Typhoons supported by a Boeing E-3D Sentry airborne early warning aircraft and opposed by a "red" package of four RAF Tornado F3s.

"Our objectives were to get interoperability between the RSAF and the RAF, to enhance new weapons planning and fly with coalition forces like the Typhoon, not just to fly hours," said Al Qdairi. "The exercise has enabled us to benefit from the UK's experience in smart weapons tactics. It was successful from all aspects, and we gained a lot."

Saudi Arabia's Tornado force more typically conducts joint exercises with the nation's Gulf Cooperation Council allies and Egypt from its home bases, according to Al Qdairi. "There is always a continuation of tactics development to improve aircrew knowledge and get the maximum benefit from the aircraft," he said.

Encouraged by the success of Green Flag and its previous "Lone Frame" detachment of 617 Sqn Tornado GR4s to Dhahran in early 2006, the UK is now looking to formalise the bilateral relationship by pursuing annual exercises which will alternate between the countries. "We are learning to work as a coalition package," stressed an RAF officer involved in the latest exercise, "not trying to impose our ways". The RSAF also shares the enthusiasm to extend the previous collaboration, according to Al Qdairi. "We have an excellent relationship with our host squadron, which gives us interest to work more," he said.

Source: Flight International

*******************************************************************************************************************************************************

Panavia Tornado upgrade summary for RSAF

The Royal Saudi Air Force continues to modernize its operational Tornado fleet. The RSAF Tornado Sustainment Programmes TSP1 & TSP2 (based on UK MLU and Packages 1 and 2) equipped the IDS fleet with a range of new precision-guided weapons and enhanced targeting equipment, updating the avionics, radios and navigation equipment, allowing the aircraft to deploy ASRAAM, ALARM, Brimstone and Storm Shadow weapons and to utilise the DAMOCLES Targeting Pod.

TSP2 was concluded with last aircraft delivery in February 2013.

The TS3 upgrade introduces a new dual mode GPS/INS and laser-guided bomb, modern pilot and navigator head down displays as well as Link 16 capability. Fleet embodiment has commenced in spring 2016 and was completed in 2018.

 

[Khafee]

Tornado forecast
10 December 1997

In the Gulf War, the RAF used the Tornado GR1 in a variety of roles, including offensive counter-air, air-interdiction, suppression of enemy air defence, and tactical reconnaissance. After initially deploying the aircraft at low level, the service switched to a medium-level campaign, revealing what air force sources describe as "a number of sub-optimal areas". The GR1's sensors, for instance, were optimised for low-level operation. Medium-level operations revealed a problem of " poor target acquisition with radar".

Limitations addressed

The GR1's limitations in the medium-level role were addressed by rushing into the field two pre-production GEC-Marconi Thermal Imaging Airborne Laser Designator (TIALD) pods to supplement the Pavespike designators already deployed on Blackburn Buccaneers.

The MLU programme also became ensnared in the then Conservative Government's apparently rolling defence reviews, with Treasury officials viewing the project as a "big, big target". This resulted in a much-reduced scope for the MLU, the most visible element to suffer being the GEC Spartan TRN, which was deleted from the programme. Originally costed at around £1 billion ($1.6 billion), the eventual budget was cut to £750 million.

Ditching the TRN deprived the GR4 of an all-weather, night-covert-penetration capability because the FLIR is weather dependent, while the NVGs require adequate ambient light. Given certain conditions, a GR4 crew will have to resort to the active-emitter TFR to prosecute a mission at low level.

The FLIR/NVG combination, however, will allow RAF Tornado units a more flexible approach in planning night missions. With the GR1, mission planning was heavily based around timing and track lines: with the GR4 crews will be able to use more day-formation-like tactics. The RAFis also looking at using the FLIR to allow night medium-level dive attacks.

The effect of these pressures has forced the RAF to "revisit MLU 88". Offsetting the deletion of the TRN, a global-positioning system (GPS) and a TIALD pod were added to the new package, dubbed MLU 93.

This package was eventually approved in 1994, covering the upgrade of 142 aircraft to GR4 standard. An initial service date of 1998 was specified.

One of the problems facing prime contractor British Aerospace, which was awarded the MLU contract in mid-1994, was the Tornado fleet mix. The RAF operates seven different modification standards of Tornado GR1, which it admits has resulted in "supportability problems". One of the side benefits of the MLU will be to bring all of the GR4s to the same baseline standard, with the exception of the reconnaissance GR4A's infra-red linescan system.

Before being delivered to Warton, all of the 142 aircraft to be upgraded will go to RAF St Athan for what is described as a pre-input maintenance programme, to bring them all to a common standard.

A total of 17 Tornado GR1s will have been returned for upgrades at BAe Warton by the end of this year, and work will be carried out on more than 20 aircraft a year from 1998 up to the completion of the programme.

Since the MLU was set in train, the Ministry of Defence has also placed contracts for several weapons for which the GR4 is a key platform: SR(A) 1242 for the Texas Instruments Paveway III laser-guided bomb, SR(A)1236 for the Matra BAe Dynamics Storm Shadow stand-off missile and SR(A) 1238 for the GEC-Marconi Brimstone anti-armour missile .

The Paveway III, with the TIALD400 Series pod, six-channel video and full integration of the Matra BAe Sea Eagle, are included in an additional GR4 work project, Package 1. The Storm Shadow, Brimstone and the Hughes RAPTOR reconnaissance pod are included in Package 2.

Beyond this, Packages 3 and 4 are also envisaged to cover such areas as the possible introduction of a missile-approach warning system, successor identification friend or foe, as well as a version of the Joint Tactical Information Distribution System (JTIDS). The JTIDS is being introduced on the Tornado F3 air-defence aircraft first. A hands-on-throttle-and-stick modification may also eventually find its way on to the GR4.

Decoy possibility

The Tornado GR4 may also receive the Miniature Air-Launched Decoy as well as whichever system emerges to meet the RAF's requirement for an improved-accuracy free-fall bomb - although whether this requirement is eventually addressed by purchasing GPS-based modification kits, or an off-the-shelf purchase of the Boeing Joint Direct Attack Munition, remains to be seen. The aircraft may also be fitted with the GEC Marconi towed radar decoy.

Alongside the RAF's GR4 programme, the Royal Saudi Air Force (RSAF) may also implement a similar upgrade for its Tornado Interdictor Strike fleet.

The RSAF has been briefed by both the RAF and the MoD on the project.

As well as the GR4 upgrade, the Saudis are also interested in purchasing both a short-range tactical air-launched anti-armour weapon, and a long-range precision strike missile. The Brimstone and the Storm Shadow are being considered to fulfil these requirements.

The RAF's present planned out-of-service date for its Tornado GR4 fleet is 2018, although there are those close to the programme who firmly believe that the aircraft will stay in service beyond 2020, before it is eventually replaced by the Future Offensive Air System, whatever this eventually turns out to be.
View attachment 12726

******************************************************************************************************************************************

Saudi Arabia reveals progress of Tornado upgrade
By Craig Hoyle
18 September 2007

While reports of Saudi Arabia's imminent order for 72 Eurofighter Typhoons dominated the headlines, eight of the nation's Panavia Tornado fighters were taking part in a low-profile exercise with the UK Royal Air Force. Originally named "Saudi Sword" but later rebranded "Saudi Green Flag", the bilateral manoeuvres marked the first time Riyadh had sent its Tornados outside the Gulf region, and were also evidence of a burgeoning relationship between the allies, which have both operated the swing-wing aircraft for more than two decades but formally trained together on the type for the first time only last year.

View attachment 12727

Movement towards the delayed Typhoon contract signature has grabbed the headlines following controversy over the UK's previous Al Yamamah arms deals with Saudi Arabia, which have included the delivery of equipment such as Tornado interdictor strike and air defence variant fighters and BAE Systems Hawk trainers. Less well known is that the government-to-government framework continues to generate fresh activity on the Royal Saudi Air Force's legacy fleet, with until now closely-guarded modernisation work having already been done to its Tornado IDS aircraft.

For the first time, the air force has disclosed details of its ongoing Tornado Sustainment Programme (TSP), and revealed that the aircraft which visited the UK have already completed the first phase of the major upgrade effort. Poised to enter its second phase of modernisation work in Saudi Arabia, the ongoing effort will ultimately equip the IDS fleet with a range of new precision-guided weapons and enhanced targeting equipment, in many cases common with those systems already fielded by the UK Royal Air Force's Tornado GR4s, up to six of which took place in the event.

"All the aircraft on the exercise are TSP stage one-modified, and stage two will come soon," said Lt Col Abdulaziz Al Qdairi, officer commanding the RSAF's 75 Sqn and the service's Green Flag detachment commander, during an exclusive interview with Flight International at RAF Lossiemouth, Scotland. Performed in Saudi Arabia by local companies working in partnership with BAE, initial enhancements to the aircraft have focused on cockpit modernisation, such as the addition of GPS navigation, changes to some displays and switches and the introduction of a new radio architecture, said Al Qdairi.


View attachment 12728

While such work has assisted the air force in deploying its aircraft over a long distance and operating under a coalition scenario with the RAF, a key aspect of the Green Flag deployment was to give its crews the opportunity to train alongside aircraft from the UK service's 617 Sqn, which recently returned from an intensive period of combat operations over Iraq. Riyadh hoped to draw early lessons from the unit's experience in using advanced targeting and reconnaissance pods, plus precision-guided weapons, while it finalises its equipment list for the next element of the TSP project.

Saudi development aircraft based at BAE's Warton flight test site in Lancashire were photographed earlier this year carrying a wide array of sensors and weapons, including MBDA's more than 250km (135nm)-range Storm Shadow cruise missile.

Riyadh has also long been cited as a potential buyer of the RAF's next-generation precision-guided bomb - Raytheon Systems' Paveway IV - and MBDA's Brimstone air-launched anti-armour weapon, the latter of which played an important part in the latest exercise.


View attachment 12729

"TSP is upgrading the aircraft so that it will be capable of carrying any advanced weapons available not only Brimstone and Storm Shadow," said Al Qdairi, adding that other potential acquisitions could include Paveway/Enhanced Paveway-series bombs and an air-to-air missile such as MBDA's Asraam. "We hope we will have such as these to make sure our air force has the latest weapons and technology." The goal is to reach the stage that the RAF is currently using with its GR4s," he continued.

While flying activities during Green Flag ran between 28 August and 6 September, the first advance elements of the more than 200-strong Saudi detachment arrived at Lossiemouth on 13 August, with initial support equipment and its first fighters following within a further five days. In addition to testing the RSAF's ability to deploy its Tornados from Dhahran, the exercise also provided an ideal opportunity for the RSAF to test the capabilities of its air transport fleet, with numerous sorties flown using its Boeing KE-3A tanker/transports and Lockheed Martin C-130s.


View attachment 12730

"The deployment was a lot of hard work, but easier than we expected," said Al Qdairi. The deployment route included inflight refuelling by KC-130s before departing Saudi airspace, followed by stops at Suda Bay in Greece, Trapani in Italy and RAF Marham in the UK. The air force sent a total of 18 Tornado crews to participate in the exercise, with the majority of these also gaining a first chance to fly alongside RAF Typhoons.

The RAF says more than 65 sorties were flown by the end of the exercise, with up to two waves of aircraft having been launched each day. Missions typically lasted around 90min, with no inflight refuelling conducted during the bilateral manoeuvres. Saudi personnel also used Thales-managed simulators at Lossiemouth as part of their training.

Operations began with familiarisation flights during which two RSAF aircraft accompanied an RAF Tornado while their crews were introduced to UK airspace and air traffic control procedures, and also cleared to perform initial low-level work down to 500ft (152m). Activities were progressively expanded to introduce bombing runs at the Tain weapons range using 3kg (6.6lb) practice bombs, and to operate against simulated surface-to-air missile threats at the UK's Spadeadam electronic warfare range.

Examples of composite air operations during this period included the joint Tornado force conducting training attacks with RAF aircraft simulating the use of MBDA Alarm anti-radiation missiles - in use by both air forces - while Saudi aircraft conducted air strikes. In a key demonstration of possible future weapons tactics, the sorties also involved several UK Tornados carrying two Brimstone weapon systems, with each comprising a rail launcher with three missiles.

The last three flying days also introduced an air-to-air threat, with four Typhoons flown by 3 Sqn pilots from RAF Coningsby in Lincolnshire initially providing a "hostile" presence. Exercise activity peaked on 5 September with a VIP demonstration involving a "blue" force of six Saudi IDS, four GR4s and four Typhoons supported by a Boeing E-3D Sentry airborne early warning aircraft and opposed by a "red" package of four RAF Tornado F3s.

"Our objectives were to get interoperability between the RSAF and the RAF, to enhance new weapons planning and fly with coalition forces like the Typhoon, not just to fly hours," said Al Qdairi. "The exercise has enabled us to benefit from the UK's experience in smart weapons tactics. It was successful from all aspects, and we gained a lot."

Saudi Arabia's Tornado force more typically conducts joint exercises with the nation's Gulf Cooperation Council allies and Egypt from its home bases, according to Al Qdairi. "There is always a continuation of tactics development to improve aircrew knowledge and get the maximum benefit from the aircraft," he said.

Encouraged by the success of Green Flag and its previous "Lone Frame" detachment of 617 Sqn Tornado GR4s to Dhahran in early 2006, the UK is now looking to formalise the bilateral relationship by pursuing annual exercises which will alternate between the countries. "We are learning to work as a coalition package," stressed an RAF officer involved in the latest exercise, "not trying to impose our ways". The RSAF also shares the enthusiasm to extend the previous collaboration, according to Al Qdairi. "We have an excellent relationship with our host squadron, which gives us interest to work more," he said.

Source: Flight International

*******************************************************************************************************************************************************

Panavia Tornado upgrade summary for RSAF

The Royal Saudi Air Force continues to modernize its operational Tornado fleet. The RSAF Tornado Sustainment Programmes TSP1 & TSP2 (based on UK MLU and Packages 1 and 2) equipped the IDS fleet with a range of new precision-guided weapons and enhanced targeting equipment, updating the avionics, radios and navigation equipment, allowing the aircraft to deploy ASRAAM, ALARM, Brimstone and Storm Shadow weapons and to utilise the DAMOCLES Targeting Pod.

TSP2 was concluded with last aircraft delivery in February 2013.

The TS3 upgrade introduces a new dual mode GPS/INS and laser-guided bomb, modern pilot and navigator head down displays as well as Link 16 capability. Fleet embodiment has commenced in spring 2016 and was completed in 2018.

View attachment 12731

@Scorpion Pls see this post, and let me know if I missed anything.

 

[Gripen9]

Tornado forecast
10 December 1997

In the Gulf War, the RAF used the Tornado GR1 in a variety of roles, including offensive counter-air, air-interdiction, suppression of enemy air defence, and tactical reconnaissance. After initially deploying the aircraft at low level, the service switched to a medium-level campaign, revealing what air force sources describe as "a number of sub-optimal areas". The GR1's sensors, for instance, were optimised for low-level operation. Medium-level operations revealed a problem of " poor target acquisition with radar".

Limitations addressed

The GR1's limitations in the medium-level role were addressed by rushing into the field two pre-production GEC-Marconi Thermal Imaging Airborne Laser Designator (TIALD) pods to supplement the Pavespike designators already deployed on Blackburn Buccaneers.

The MLU programme also became ensnared in the then Conservative Government's apparently rolling defence reviews, with Treasury officials viewing the project as a "big, big target". This resulted in a much-reduced scope for the MLU, the most visible element to suffer being the GEC Spartan TRN, which was deleted from the programme. Originally costed at around £1 billion ($1.6 billion), the eventual budget was cut to £750 million.

Ditching the TRN deprived the GR4 of an all-weather, night-covert-penetration capability because the FLIR is weather dependent, while the NVGs require adequate ambient light. Given certain conditions, a GR4 crew will have to resort to the active-emitter TFR to prosecute a mission at low level.

The FLIR/NVG combination, however, will allow RAF Tornado units a more flexible approach in planning night missions. With the GR1, mission planning was heavily based around timing and track lines: with the GR4 crews will be able to use more day-formation-like tactics. The RAFis also looking at using the FLIR to allow night medium-level dive attacks.

The effect of these pressures has forced the RAF to "revisit MLU 88". Offsetting the deletion of the TRN, a global-positioning system (GPS) and a TIALD pod were added to the new package, dubbed MLU 93.

This package was eventually approved in 1994, covering the upgrade of 142 aircraft to GR4 standard. An initial service date of 1998 was specified.

One of the problems facing prime contractor British Aerospace, which was awarded the MLU contract in mid-1994, was the Tornado fleet mix. The RAF operates seven different modification standards of Tornado GR1, which it admits has resulted in "supportability problems". One of the side benefits of the MLU will be to bring all of the GR4s to the same baseline standard, with the exception of the reconnaissance GR4A's infra-red linescan system.

Before being delivered to Warton, all of the 142 aircraft to be upgraded will go to RAF St Athan for what is described as a pre-input maintenance programme, to bring them all to a common standard.

A total of 17 Tornado GR1s will have been returned for upgrades at BAe Warton by the end of this year, and work will be carried out on more than 20 aircraft a year from 1998 up to the completion of the programme.

Since the MLU was set in train, the Ministry of Defence has also placed contracts for several weapons for which the GR4 is a key platform: SR(A) 1242 for the Texas Instruments Paveway III laser-guided bomb, SR(A)1236 for the Matra BAe Dynamics Storm Shadow stand-off missile and SR(A) 1238 for the GEC-Marconi Brimstone anti-armour missile .

The Paveway III, with the TIALD400 Series pod, six-channel video and full integration of the Matra BAe Sea Eagle, are included in an additional GR4 work project, Package 1. The Storm Shadow, Brimstone and the Hughes RAPTOR reconnaissance pod are included in Package 2.

Beyond this, Packages 3 and 4 are also envisaged to cover such areas as the possible introduction of a missile-approach warning system, successor identification friend or foe, as well as a version of the Joint Tactical Information Distribution System (JTIDS). The JTIDS is being introduced on the Tornado F3 air-defence aircraft first. A hands-on-throttle-and-stick modification may also eventually find its way on to the GR4.

Decoy possibility

The Tornado GR4 may also receive the Miniature Air-Launched Decoy as well as whichever system emerges to meet the RAF's requirement for an improved-accuracy free-fall bomb - although whether this requirement is eventually addressed by purchasing GPS-based modification kits, or an off-the-shelf purchase of the Boeing Joint Direct Attack Munition, remains to be seen. The aircraft may also be fitted with the GEC Marconi towed radar decoy.

Alongside the RAF's GR4 programme, the Royal Saudi Air Force (RSAF) may also implement a similar upgrade for its Tornado Interdictor Strike fleet.

The RSAF has been briefed by both the RAF and the MoD on the project.

As well as the GR4 upgrade, the Saudis are also interested in purchasing both a short-range tactical air-launched anti-armour weapon, and a long-range precision strike missile. The Brimstone and the Storm Shadow are being considered to fulfil these requirements.

The RAF's present planned out-of-service date for its Tornado GR4 fleet is 2018, although there are those close to the programme who firmly believe that the aircraft will stay in service beyond 2020, before it is eventually replaced by the Future Offensive Air System, whatever this eventually turns out to be.
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Saudi Arabia reveals progress of Tornado upgrade
By Craig Hoyle
18 September 2007

While reports of Saudi Arabia's imminent order for 72 Eurofighter Typhoons dominated the headlines, eight of the nation's Panavia Tornado fighters were taking part in a low-profile exercise with the UK Royal Air Force. Originally named "Saudi Sword" but later rebranded "Saudi Green Flag", the bilateral manoeuvres marked the first time Riyadh had sent its Tornados outside the Gulf region, and were also evidence of a burgeoning relationship between the allies, which have both operated the swing-wing aircraft for more than two decades but formally trained together on the type for the first time only last year.

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Movement towards the delayed Typhoon contract signature has grabbed the headlines following controversy over the UK's previous Al Yamamah arms deals with Saudi Arabia, which have included the delivery of equipment such as Tornado interdictor strike and air defence variant fighters and BAE Systems Hawk trainers. Less well known is that the government-to-government framework continues to generate fresh activity on the Royal Saudi Air Force's legacy fleet, with until now closely-guarded modernisation work having already been done to its Tornado IDS aircraft.

For the first time, the air force has disclosed details of its ongoing Tornado Sustainment Programme (TSP), and revealed that the aircraft which visited the UK have already completed the first phase of the major upgrade effort. Poised to enter its second phase of modernisation work in Saudi Arabia, the ongoing effort will ultimately equip the IDS fleet with a range of new precision-guided weapons and enhanced targeting equipment, in many cases common with those systems already fielded by the UK Royal Air Force's Tornado GR4s, up to six of which took place in the event.

"All the aircraft on the exercise are TSP stage one-modified, and stage two will come soon," said Lt Col Abdulaziz Al Qdairi, officer commanding the RSAF's 75 Sqn and the service's Green Flag detachment commander, during an exclusive interview with Flight International at RAF Lossiemouth, Scotland. Performed in Saudi Arabia by local companies working in partnership with BAE, initial enhancements to the aircraft have focused on cockpit modernisation, such as the addition of GPS navigation, changes to some displays and switches and the introduction of a new radio architecture, said Al Qdairi.


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While such work has assisted the air force in deploying its aircraft over a long distance and operating under a coalition scenario with the RAF, a key aspect of the Green Flag deployment was to give its crews the opportunity to train alongside aircraft from the UK service's 617 Sqn, which recently returned from an intensive period of combat operations over Iraq. Riyadh hoped to draw early lessons from the unit's experience in using advanced targeting and reconnaissance pods, plus precision-guided weapons, while it finalises its equipment list for the next element of the TSP project.

Saudi development aircraft based at BAE's Warton flight test site in Lancashire were photographed earlier this year carrying a wide array of sensors and weapons, including MBDA's more than 250km (135nm)-range Storm Shadow cruise missile.

Riyadh has also long been cited as a potential buyer of the RAF's next-generation precision-guided bomb - Raytheon Systems' Paveway IV - and MBDA's Brimstone air-launched anti-armour weapon, the latter of which played an important part in the latest exercise.


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"TSP is upgrading the aircraft so that it will be capable of carrying any advanced weapons available not only Brimstone and Storm Shadow," said Al Qdairi, adding that other potential acquisitions could include Paveway/Enhanced Paveway-series bombs and an air-to-air missile such as MBDA's Asraam. "We hope we will have such as these to make sure our air force has the latest weapons and technology." The goal is to reach the stage that the RAF is currently using with its GR4s," he continued.

While flying activities during Green Flag ran between 28 August and 6 September, the first advance elements of the more than 200-strong Saudi detachment arrived at Lossiemouth on 13 August, with initial support equipment and its first fighters following within a further five days. In addition to testing the RSAF's ability to deploy its Tornados from Dhahran, the exercise also provided an ideal opportunity for the RSAF to test the capabilities of its air transport fleet, with numerous sorties flown using its Boeing KE-3A tanker/transports and Lockheed Martin C-130s.


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"The deployment was a lot of hard work, but easier than we expected," said Al Qdairi. The deployment route included inflight refuelling by KC-130s before departing Saudi airspace, followed by stops at Suda Bay in Greece, Trapani in Italy and RAF Marham in the UK. The air force sent a total of 18 Tornado crews to participate in the exercise, with the majority of these also gaining a first chance to fly alongside RAF Typhoons.

The RAF says more than 65 sorties were flown by the end of the exercise, with up to two waves of aircraft having been launched each day. Missions typically lasted around 90min, with no inflight refuelling conducted during the bilateral manoeuvres. Saudi personnel also used Thales-managed simulators at Lossiemouth as part of their training.

Operations began with familiarisation flights during which two RSAF aircraft accompanied an RAF Tornado while their crews were introduced to UK airspace and air traffic control procedures, and also cleared to perform initial low-level work down to 500ft (152m). Activities were progressively expanded to introduce bombing runs at the Tain weapons range using 3kg (6.6lb) practice bombs, and to operate against simulated surface-to-air missile threats at the UK's Spadeadam electronic warfare range.

Examples of composite air operations during this period included the joint Tornado force conducting training attacks with RAF aircraft simulating the use of MBDA Alarm anti-radiation missiles - in use by both air forces - while Saudi aircraft conducted air strikes. In a key demonstration of possible future weapons tactics, the sorties also involved several UK Tornados carrying two Brimstone weapon systems, with each comprising a rail launcher with three missiles.

The last three flying days also introduced an air-to-air threat, with four Typhoons flown by 3 Sqn pilots from RAF Coningsby in Lincolnshire initially providing a "hostile" presence. Exercise activity peaked on 5 September with a VIP demonstration involving a "blue" force of six Saudi IDS, four GR4s and four Typhoons supported by a Boeing E-3D Sentry airborne early warning aircraft and opposed by a "red" package of four RAF Tornado F3s.

"Our objectives were to get interoperability between the RSAF and the RAF, to enhance new weapons planning and fly with coalition forces like the Typhoon, not just to fly hours," said Al Qdairi. "The exercise has enabled us to benefit from the UK's experience in smart weapons tactics. It was successful from all aspects, and we gained a lot."

Saudi Arabia's Tornado force more typically conducts joint exercises with the nation's Gulf Cooperation Council allies and Egypt from its home bases, according to Al Qdairi. "There is always a continuation of tactics development to improve aircrew knowledge and get the maximum benefit from the aircraft," he said.

Encouraged by the success of Green Flag and its previous "Lone Frame" detachment of 617 Sqn Tornado GR4s to Dhahran in early 2006, the UK is now looking to formalise the bilateral relationship by pursuing annual exercises which will alternate between the countries. "We are learning to work as a coalition package," stressed an RAF officer involved in the latest exercise, "not trying to impose our ways". The RSAF also shares the enthusiasm to extend the previous collaboration, according to Al Qdairi. "We have an excellent relationship with our host squadron, which gives us interest to work more," he said.

Source: Flight International

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Panavia Tornado upgrade summary for RSAF

The Royal Saudi Air Force continues to modernize its operational Tornado fleet. The RSAF Tornado Sustainment Programmes TSP1 & TSP2 (based on UK MLU and Packages 1 and 2) equipped the IDS fleet with a range of new precision-guided weapons and enhanced targeting equipment, updating the avionics, radios and navigation equipment, allowing the aircraft to deploy ASRAAM, ALARM, Brimstone and Storm Shadow weapons and to utilise the DAMOCLES Targeting Pod.

TSP2 was concluded with last aircraft delivery in February 2013.

The TS3 upgrade introduces a new dual mode GPS/INS and laser-guided bomb, modern pilot and navigator head down displays as well as Link 16 capability. Fleet embodiment has commenced in spring 2016 and was completed in 2018.

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I remember those Pave Spike mounted on those old war horses (Buccaneers) to laze targets for Tornadoes.

BTW we did something similar in the early/mid 90s. PAF was under sanctions. F-16s were embargoed. We armed old A-5 & F-7 with paveway LGBs. They were used as mules with laser designation done by high flying F-16s w/ Thomson-CSF Atlis pods at standoff ranges. The A-5/F-7 would dash in at very low level, cockpit had a basic "speaker" that was interfaced to the LGB seeker head. Once the seeker found the laser source, you would hear a growl. The mule would pop up release ordnance and bug out.

 

[Caprxl]

Have seen that in some area in Pakistan.
Are they used no more in that way?

I haven't seen any. @Gripen9 @TsAr @Counter-Errorist or some other more knowledgeable member could shed more light on this.

They are still used for protection of some high security military establishments against low flying objects

Well they are still being used, had honor in Designing a Control System for Modern balloon barrages. Cannot say more on open forum except that you will Find ingenuity in Pakistan Armed Forces (i think its attributed to our restrictions to low resources) like its embedded in their DNA especially in PAF. You would be surprised if you know how this Balloon barrage is being used in 21st Century by Pakistan.

Sure, it will be of less use against Modern SOW but still there are Certain threats that PAF thought could be neutralized with innovation.

 

[Mastankhan]

What about Over the Horizon Radars? Look up TPS-71 & Jindalee. These are low frequency radars that can detect both surface and low flying aircraft at thousands of miles. The radar waves hug the curvature.

Also, flying constantly for multiple hours at high speed is very dangerous and strenuous. Especially with a moving surface underneath.
The last western dedicated low level interdiction aircraft built was Panavia Tornado GR4. RAF employed them in that role during Desert Storm for the first 2 weeks and suffered the most losses. It had to reluctantly switch to medium altitude standoff tactics afterwards to avoid casualties.

British Fliers Suffering Higher Rate of Losses : Combat: Analysts cite the Royal Air Force's daring style and its hazardous mission as causes.

British pilots, renowned for flying extremely low and fast at their targets, are suffering dramatically higher casualty rates than their American counterparts in Gulf War missions.

www.latimes.com

Hi,

I ca understand what you are saying flying over land but from where would you be launching the SA missile when the aircraft is 400 miles from your shores and flying over the water---?