Acquisition of J-15 for PAF- Air Superiority & Deep Strike Platfrom

[Scorpio]

Short summery its still behind of American engines like F414 but now on par of Russian engines AL 31F. For an reason Chinese going for mass production of it

WS10 is copy of Al 31

 

[Khafee]

WS10 is copy of Al 31

WS-10 is not a direct copy, there are differences, hence the different versions. The latest one "H" which Zulu pointed out is the closest to AL-31 in terms of performance. Hopefully IA it should be good enough as well.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Short summery WS-10H still lag behind of American engines like F414 but now on par of Russian engines AL 31F. For an reason Chinese going for mass production of it

Would pakistan be able to swap out the engines after the Chinese come up with new ones? Because I see them still developing their engine's until they are past the Americans.


Would this cause issues or would be a "simple" swap?

 

[Armchair]

Problem with a floating base is that it becomes a sitting duck. With subs lurking, and twin heavies ready to pop up from stand off distance, you keep your enemy guessing. Secondly, They too have oil rigs in the sea.

The only other option is to go for an artificial island like the PLAN in SCS.

 

[Khafee]

Would pakistan be able to swap out the engines after the Chinese come up with new ones? Because I see them still developing their engine's until they are past the Americans.


Would this cause issues or would be a "simple" swap?

I think we saw this with the JF-17, it was given enough space that in future newer engines could be accomodated. I dont see why J-15Pk would not have this option. BUT this is just me speculating.

 

[Cookie Monster]

I think we saw this with the JF-17, it was given enough space that in future newer engines could be accomodated. I dont see why J-15Pk would not have this option. BUT this is just me speculating.

Any idea what role are these J15s intended to serve? Air superiority? Deep strike? Air arm for PN(though under PAF's control)? Or any combination of those depending on the need at the time?

 

[Khafee]

Any idea what role are these J15s intended to serve? Air superiority? Deep strike? Air arm for PN(though under PAF's control)? Or any combination of those depending on the need at the time?

Exactly! A combo of all 3 depending on the situation.

But I am pushing (both from inside, and outside) for PN having its own offensive air arm, IA.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Exactly! A combo of all 3 depending on the situation.

But I am pushing (both from inside, and outside) for PN having its own offensive air arm, IA.

I've been wondering about it for a while...and I was under the impression(before u cleared it up) that they were intended mainly for PN(while under PAF).

The reasons are...

1. PAF has built up more numbers of Erieye AEWACS over the years...more than they originally intended...despite economic setbacks and terrorist attacks(which damaged these).
   • I think the main reason being that Erieye has Link 16 and SAAB allows for the customer's own data link as well...which means PAF's Erieyes have both Link 16 and Link 17. This makes it an excellent AEWACS platform to monitor the skies over land guiding/communicating with both F16s and JF17s which form the bulk of the PAF's fighter jets.
2. The ZDK on the other hand(even if it is an excellent platform) lacks Link 16(being of Chinese origin)...which hinders the seamless direct flow of information between a sizable number of fighter jets in PAF's inventory(F16s). However I assume it has Link 17(it wouldn't have been an issue between Pak/China to allow Pak specific datalink on that platform).
   • Perhaps for this reason PAF went for a greater number of Erieyes instead?
3. J15(also of Chinese origin) would most likely also have Link 17(as per PAF's requirements).
4. JF17 already has Link 17 and antiship missiles have already been integrated on it.
5. PAF's F16s don't have antiship capabilities...
   • So essentially Erieyes can serve to protect the skies with F16s/JF17s over land
   • While J15s(already navalized) and JF17s in antiship role along with ZDKs can support PN and protect Pak's territorial waters.

So based on that above...I was thinking that the acquisition of the J15s is to enhance the PN's capabilities. PN is already in process of acquiring a decent number of surface vessels along with a sizable amount of submarines. These twin heavies would add the extra punch(much needed) and keep IN fighter jets and vessels in check. JF17s can be added in the mix to augment the J15s(in terms of numbers). ZDKs can be handed over to the PN(even if PAF officially operates them...I mean in terms of the role) to provide the capabilities of an AEWAC(to PN specific J15s and JF17s). ZDKs having Link 17 would work seamlessly with J15s and JF17s also having Link 17.

Anyways...all that thinking was useless
Thanks for the info

 

[Khafee]

I've been wondering about it for a while...and I was under the impression(before u cleared it up) that they were intended mainly for PN(while under PAF).

The reasons are...

1. PAF has built up more numbers of Erieye AEWACS over the years...more than they originally intended...despite economic setbacks and terrorist attacks(which damaged these).
   • I think the main reason being that Erieye has Link 16 and SAAB allows for the customer's own data link as well...which means PAF's Erieyes have both Link 16 and Link 17. This makes it an excellent AEWACS platform to monitor the skies over land guiding/communicating with both F16s and JF17s which form the bulk of the PAF's fighter jets.
2. The ZDK on the other hand(even if it is an excellent platform) lacks Link 16(being of Chinese origin)...which hinders the seamless direct flow of information between a sizable number of fighter jets in PAF's inventory(F16s). However I assume it has Link 17(it wouldn't have been an issue between Pak/China to allow Pak specific datalink on that platform).
   • Perhaps for this reason PAF went for a greater number of Erieyes instead?
3. J15(also of Chinese origin) would most likely also have Link 17(as per PAF's requirements).
4. JF17 already has Link 17 and antiship missiles have already been integrated on it.
5. PAF's F16s don't have antiship capabilities...
   • So essentially Erieyes can serve to protect the skies with F16s/JF17s over land
   • While J15s(already navalized) and JF17s in antiship role along with ZDKs can support PN and protect Pak's territorial waters.

So based on that above...I was thinking that the acquisition of the J15s is to enhance the PN's capabilities. PN is already in process of acquiring a decent number of surface vessels along with a sizable amount of submarines. These twin heavies would add the extra punch(much needed) and keep IN fighter jets and vessels in check. JF17s can be added in the mix to augment the J15s(in terms of numbers). ZDKs can be handed over to the PN(even if PAF officially operates them...I mean in terms of the role) to provide the capabilities of an AEWAC(to PN specific J15s and JF17s). ZDKs having Link 17 would work seamlessly with J15s and JF17s also having Link 17.

Anyways...all that thinking was useless
Thanks for the info

Thinking, is never useless. It proves that there is no vacuum between the ears

You are right on a lot of the above points! But given the enemies capabilities, CPEC, Kekra1, a more stronger PN is required.

 

[Khafee]

The only other option is to go for an artificial island like the PLAN in SCS.

An extremely expensive option.

 

[Armchair]

An extremely expensive option.

How about helping a Gulf state with Yemen? And possible basing in Socotra or a similar island? But not sure how folding wings, aircraft carriers or anything remotely similar is all supposed to come together on this puzzle you've presented Khafee.

Occam's razor suggests:
Would allow PAF flexibility to operate using present hardened shelters

Interestingly, while searching for prime locations for an artificial island (a bunch of underwater mountains nearly jutting out of the water can be seen south of the Pakistani shore), I found a most interesting thing:

There are underwater patterns off the coast of Oman that suggests a long time ago there were river networks that are now submerged. And the Omani dry land, may once have had green topography and forests that attracted rain water.

 

[Khafee]

How about helping a Gulf state with Yemen? And possible basing in Socotra or a similar island? But not sure how folding wings, aircraft carriers or anything remotely similar is all supposed to come together on this puzzle you've presented Khafee.

Occam's razor suggests:
Would allow PAF flexibility to operate using present hardened shelters

Interestingly, while searching for prime locations for an artificial island (a bunch of underwater mountains nearly jutting out of the water can be seen south of the Pakistani shore), I found a most interesting thing:

There are underwater patterns off the coast of Oman that suggests a long time ago there were river networks that are now submerged. And the Omani dry land, may once have had green topography and forests that attracted rain water.

Pls refresh, and tell me what you see?

 

[Lone Ranger]

Kekra1

so, we found the oil?

 

[Khafee]

How about helping a Gulf state with Yemen? And possible basing in Socotra or a similar island? But not sure how folding wings, aircraft carriers or anything remotely similar is all supposed to come together on this puzzle you've presented Khafee.

Occam's razor suggests:
Would allow PAF flexibility to operate using present hardened shelters

Interestingly, while searching for prime locations for an artificial island (a bunch of underwater mountains nearly jutting out of the water can be seen south of the Pakistani shore), I found a most interesting thing:

There are underwater patterns off the coast of Oman that suggests a long time ago there were river networks that are now submerged. And the Omani dry land, may once have had green topography and forests that attracted rain water.

With J15 there are a couple of things to be noted.

1) It is based on an Su-33, obtained from Ukraine. So there is no Sukhoi copyright issues
2) The J15Pk will be the most advanced a/c produced by china, with the exception of J20 & J31. To assimilate all these tech, in a platform that wont be an issue for anyone, is the J15
3) The added benefit of folding wings and strengthened landing gear is that, they can be launched or recovered by an aircraft carrier, even if PN does not own one. To lease, or use PLAN facilities is not that hard, or unthinkable.
4) PLAAF and PLAN aviation have always taken input from PAF on both strategic, as well as tactical issues. There will be a lot of synergy between them, the J15Pk is an accumulation of those synergies.
5) There will be a very sizeable number of dedicated "growler" type J15s.

Regards

 

[Khafee]

so, we found the oil?

What do you think Kimo saabi?