Acquisition of J-15 for PAF- Air Superiority & Deep Strike Platfrom

[Khafee]

As expected

Cant say about the rest, but in my unit, I enforce a policy of no daer siyanae

 

[Sayad]

Hello everyone,
@Khafee Sir I was looking for you on the other forum then I came to know that you are here so I am here.... I was looking to say you hello only but idhr tou apnay aag laga rakhi h lolz

 

[BATMAN]

with brain ...

bhai again see the map why Lakshadweep islands .... ???? which are small very much defendable by India .... why not somewhere else n the region read the map read the history of few agreements concluded by different countries of the region read the recent history of political changes in the region ....

we have options available to us but could we avail those options and in which manner are the important questions and related to brain ...... like there is saying in Urdu "dushman ko hatyaar se nahi hikmat se mara jata hai" [Translation Enemy is killed by Strategy not by weapons]

Imran Khan ki hikamt ? Kindly explain what's the master plan behind hikmat?

On 27th February, 2019, even after loosing air battle, Modi publicly gave dead line for return of his pilot. He wasn't showing any brains but it eventually worked for him.

 

[Khafee]

Hello everyone,
@Khafee Sir I was looking for you on the other forum then I came to know that you are here so I am here.... I was looking to say you hello only but idhr tou apnay aag laga rakhi h lolz

Welcome aboard, pls introduce your self here:

Members Introduction

Just joined! please introduce yourself.

world-defense.com

 

[ali razza]

@Zulu @TsAr @ali razza Just thinking loud, pure speculation, could there be a ceremony for inducting all 3 new platforms in the pipeline?

it will be huge PR exercise if happened
sending strong message across the border is wht we want
war isn’t in our favor specially when indians r happily doing our work of destroying themselves alhamdulillah

 

[Cookie Monster]

@Zulu @TsAr @ali razza Just thinking loud, pure speculation, could there be a ceremony for inducting all 3 new platforms in the pipeline?

That's so unlike Pak though...usually they keep it hidden. Flashing all the goodies...and at the same time...would cause many many brown stained dhotis.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Only special hardware these unique j10 could have is ws10 TVC engine which PLAAF don't have.

IMO I think it's the avionics inside. The 5th gen tech the Chinese have been researching for a while for their J20 fighter jet...could have trickled down to J10. They just haven't upgraded their J10s yet...I assume.

With high off bore sight missiles coupled with HMSD sort of eliminates the need for TVC. Sure it offers amazing maneuverability...but that comes at a cost. I would assume the TVC WS10 to be more maintenance prone than that same WS10 without TVC. PAF wouldn't want that extra cost if it doesn't offer much benefit.

 

[Gripen9]

IMO I think it's the avionics inside. The 5th gen tech the Chinese have been researching for a while for their J20 fighter jet...could have trickled down to J10. They just haven't upgraded their J10s yet...I assume.

With high off bore sight missiles coupled with HMSD sort of eliminates the need for TVC. Sure it offers amazing maneuverability...but that comes at a cost. I would assume the TVC WS10 to be more maintenance prone than that same WS10 without TVC. PAF wouldn't want that extra cost if it doesn't offer much benefit.

Totally agree. In the age for 40G+ maneuvering BVR missiles, TVC is a gimmick. Coupled with massive energy loss during such a maneuver.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Totally agree. In the age for 40G+ maneuvering BVR missiles, TVC is a gimmick. Coupled with massive energy loss during such a maneuver.

It's not completely useless though...just the other day I was watching a documentary on US developing an air launched anti sat weapon. They modified an F15 to carry and launch that anti sat weapon. If I recall correctly it was launched below mach 1 at some subsonic speed...but at a very high angle of attack. In that case a TVC engine can enable that.

This was way back during the cold war. The tech was old...the anti sat weapon had to be manually guided I think. However I was thinking that with today's modern tech...Pak can easily develop something like that with Chinese or Turkish assistance. It would give anti sat capability on the cheap.

Moreover anti sat ballistic missiles can be detected...as any ballistic missile launch is detectable early on, which can alert the enemy for whatever counter measures there are to avoid being hit. In Pak/India scenario specifically...a ballistic missile launch could be interpreted as a nuclear strike...and escalate matters unnecessarily. So that's where such an anti sat(air launched) weapon and hence TVC may still prove useful. In any case I don't think its Pak's immediate concern right now to develop anti sat capability. If it does in the future...then TVC may become useful again.

 

[TomCat]

IMO I think it's the avionics inside. The 5th gen tech the Chinese have been researching for a while for their J20 fighter jet...could have trickled down to J10. They just haven't upgraded their J10s yet...I assume.

With high off bore sight missiles coupled with HMSD sort of eliminates the need for TVC. Sure it offers amazing maneuverability...but that comes at a cost. I would assume the TVC WS10 to be more maintenance prone than that same WS10 without TVC. PAF wouldn't want that extra cost if it doesn't offer much benefit.

Perfect post.

J-10B is the testbed for J-20 avionics, If you can’t afford or want a J-20, You always have an option in the form of J-10.

No matter what J-20 gets, J-10 can also equip that and hence why I don’t share tea with people who say that J-10 brings nothing new to table.

J-10 is an even better option than Block 70/72 to be honest as you don’t get anything better than AIM-120D with B70 while You can have PL-15 or PL-21 in future on the J-10 which Light fighters like Thunders regardless of Blocks, Can’t afford to equip in much numbers or none at all (PL-21).

Apart from that, You can equip the vast variety of Other equipments on J-10 from PLAAF offerings, Be it Anti Ship or Ground, F-16s Don’t give us much options in that regard as well and Thunders lack the capacity to hold them in numbers and even if able to, Movement restricted and Disbalance in weight.

J-10s can also take over the role of our Mirages and replace them.

J-10s should be pursued for Bholari, That is a need of time, Ideal to confront any Indian aggression towards Balochistan, Can always act as a backup and provide cover for Masroor/Faisal incase the fighters at these bases are busy over seas.

In future, If we pursue J-20, Bholari would be perfect and J-10 would be a perfect companion for J-20.

A combination of J-15 and Block 2/3 Thunders at Masroor with Upgraded ZDKs should be enough of a punch to counter any aggression of IN.

The issue with F-16s is the TST guys and their “Kabab mein Haddi” privacy invasion and 24/7/12 spying over our bases. What makes me wonder is that once we receive more F-16s, How would PAF tackle the issue of restricting these TST guys to least number of bases ? If heavy fleet of F-16 is formed (130+), They would have to sacrifice the privacy.

And lastly, TVC is an insignificant stupid thing especially for Single engines, Hence never adopted for operational use in the fourth Gen fighters.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Perfect post.

J-10B is the testbed for J-20 avionics, If you can’t afford or want a J-20, You always have an option in the form of J-10.

No matter what J-20 gets, J-10 can also equip that and hence why I don’t share tea with people who say that J-10 brings nothing new to table.

J-10 is an even better option than Block 70/72 to be honest as you don’t get anything better than AIM-120D with B70 while You can have PL-15 or PL-21 in future on the J-10 which Light fighters like Thunders regardless of Blocks, Can’t afford to equip in much numbers or none at all (PL-21).

Apart from that, You can equip the vast variety of Other equipments on J-10 from PLAAF offerings, Be it Anti Ship or Ground, F-16s Don’t give us much options in that regard as well and Thunders lack the capacity to hold them in numbers and even if able to, Movement restricted and Disbalance in weight.

J-10s can also take over the role of our Mirages and replace them.

J-10s should be pursued for Bholari, That is a need of time, Ideal to confront any Indian aggression towards Balochistan, Can always act as a backup and provide cover for Masroor/Faisal incase the fighters at these bases are busy over seas.

A combination of J-15 and Block 2/3 Thunders at Masroor with Upgraded ZDKs should be enough of a punch to counter any aggression of IN.

The issue with F-16s is the TST guys and their “Kabab mein Haddi” privacy invasion and 24/7/12 spying over our bases. What makes me wonder is that once we receive more F-16s, How would PAF tackle the issue of restricting these TST guys to least number of bases ? If heavy fleet of F-16 is formed (130+), They would have to sacrifice the privacy.

And lastly, TVC is an insignificant stupid thing especially for Single engines, Hence never adopted for operational use in the fourth Gen fighters.

I wouldn't say J10 doesn't bring anything new to the table...however I'm a bit puzzled by the fact that Pak is going for J15 and J10. In terms of capability...JF17 and F16s(upgraded) can do enough to sort of make the J10 redundant. However as u mentioned the PL15 and PL 21...I get that F16 won't be able to have that(or Pak not given an equivalent tech)...but with J15 Pak can get that capability.

So my whole thing is instead of splitting the money between 4 platforms...JF17, F16, J10, J15...wouldn't it be better to split it between 3(JF17, F16, J15)? Anything that can be added to J10 can be added to JF17 or if being a lightweight fighter is the issue then it can be added to J15. Additionally J15 offers longer range than J10(which would have similar range to an F16 I assume). Idk I just think that PAF should operate twin heavies in relatively large numbers...just my opinion. Perhaps PAF is going for some J15s and some J10s rather than all J15s to save on operating costs? Bcuz twin heavies cost more to operate.

 

[TomCat]

I wouldn't say J10 doesn't bring anything new to the table...however I'm a bit puzzled by the fact that Pak is going for J15 and J10. In terms of capability...JF17 and F16s(upgraded) can do enough to sort of make the J10 redundant. However as u mentioned the PL15 and PL 21...I get that F16 won't be able to have that(or Pak not given an equivalent tech)...but with J15 Pak can get that capability.

So my whole thing is instead of splitting the money between 4 platforms...JF17, F16, J10, J15...wouldn't it be better to split it between 3(JF17, F16, J15)? Anything that can be added to J10 can be added to JF17 or if being a lightweight fighter is the issue then it can be added to J15. Additionally J15 offers longer range than J10(which would have similar range to an F16 I assume). Idk I just think that PAF should operate twin heavies in relatively large numbers...just my opinion. Perhaps PAF is going for some J15s and some J10s rather than all J15s to save on operating costs? Bcuz twin heavies cost more to operate.

I don’t think anyone here actually confirmed J-10 being part of acquisitions, Just an assumption throughout the thread.

However, I have an answer for your query, It all comes down to roles and not the No.of Platforms.

What I have guessed all along is that initially the main goal of J-15 is to provide Good Aerial EW Capabilities to Naval Ops Fleet such as Those in Masroor or Faisal. Apart from that, If more numbers are sought, Definitely to provide Air Superiority over Kashmir and Punjab.

J-10s, F-16s and Thunders will fall down to having similar roles, This is where I am confused.

 

[Gripen9]

I don’t think anyone here actually confirmed J-10 being part of acquisitions, Just an assumption throughout the thread.

However, I have an answer for your query, It all comes down to roles and not the No.of Platforms.

What I have guessed all along is that initially the main goal of J-15 is to provide Good Aerial EW Capabilities to Naval Ops Fleet such as Those in Masroor or Faisal. Apart from that, If more numbers are sought, Definitely to provide Air Superiority over Kashmir and Punjab.

J-10s, F-16s and Thunders will fall down to having similar roles, This is where I am confused.

That has been my question as well. And I was accused of being fixated on this (maybe it is a shosha grand master @Khafee let go to distract and confuse )
My understanding is from an EW/radar/Net centric capabilities JF17 blk3 would be at par with J10 without the payload capacity & range. Blk3 is purported to be capable of launching PL15. So to me it still does not make sense to me unless there is a delay in BLK3, and or there is imminent threat of hostilities and PAF needs to be beefed up. In that case this is a stop gap lease/used aircraft purchase from existing PLAAF stocks.

 

[Cookie Monster]

I don’t think anyone here actually confirmed J-10 being part of acquisitions, Just an assumption throughout the thread.

However, I have an answer for your query, It all comes down to roles and not the No.of Platforms.

What I have guessed all along is that initially the main goal of J-15 is to provide Good Aerial EW Capabilities to Naval Ops Fleet such as Those in Masroor or Faisal. Apart from that, If more numbers are sought, Definitely to provide Air Superiority over Kashmir and Punjab.

J-10s, F-16s and Thunders will fall down to having similar roles, This is where I am confused.

^Yes that's exactly what I'm not getting

As for J15 having EW role...I think it's an underestimation of a jet like the J15. J15 is a flanker...there's a reason why Su27 and all its various iterations around the world(all the way up to Su35) have been so widely adopted...and produced in such numbers for so long. It is an excellent platform all around. It can function well as an air superiority platform...it can carry enough load to function in the air to ground role as a bomb truck...it has enough range to carry out strikes deep within enemy territory and patrol vast areas of Pak's maritime boundary...it can be modified for special roles like SEAD/DEAD(like J16D) or for anti ship role...so on and so forth.

Hence why I think it makes more sense to have 50 J15 rather than 25 J10 and 25 J15...not actual numbers...just using them to illustrate a point. Also u r right it's not for sure yet that J10s are coming. I was just further speculating on the posts here mentioning a potential J10 acquisition.

 

[Mingle]

But why J10 at first place? When J15 F16 moving in along blk 3???