Acquisition of J-15 for PAF- Air Superiority & Deep Strike Platfrom

[TomCat]

When under pressure people crack. This is where training comes in, but is dependent on how well an individual absorbs it.

Under pressure he should know, under what circumstance what to do next. If this happens Option A, and IF that happens, Option C etc

After visualizing what you are mentioning, I agree.

It is like the training is for the situations of “You are stuck, You have no option but to fight accordingly or die”

Understood !

 

[TomCat]

Speaking of Kalaikunda, we often overlook the other big strike done by PAF on 7, Sep 1965.
F86s of No14 Sqn based at Dhaka launched an airstrike against Kalaikunda in West Bengal. Arrived over target undetected. IAF never assumed PAF would even attempt such a thing. Kalaikunda was just barely in range. Sabres had 4 drop tanks and just internal machine guns as armament. They found neat flight line of 14+ Canberra bombers which the proceeded to decimate with multiple strafing runs. Neatly chopping of the tails. That's how they got the nickname "Tail Choppers".
Now when you see JF17s with a scimitar on the tail and Tail Choppers written you will know whose decedents these boys (and girls) are.

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I remember reading that this incident was totally nothing which was debriefed to them prior to mission but they changed their plans themselves on the battlefield as they saw a good chance.

However, such things might please Those in charge as well as displease them.

The ops are mostly planned keeping in mind the planning of tri services and never a single service isolated plan, although this was a great move but I would term it unprofessional as they disobeyed their seniors, Might have raised complications for following PA attacks to which the original PAF debrief was a pre requisite

 

[Khafee]

After visualizing what you are mentioning, I agree.

It is like the training is for the situations of “You are stuck, You have no option but to fight accordingly or die”

Understood !

It has been my experience, that soldiers whose aim is Martyrdom, fight even if they think they are going to loose, without fear of death.. And then you see them come back as Ghazi's @Zulu is one good e.g.

 

[Araz]

Southern Punjab, is so under developed it might as well be in Sindh. Why do you think Southern Punjabis want a separate province?

It is part of the Saraiki belt. They have links with both Sindh and Punjab as well as Baluchistan. The heart of Sufism movement and a source of great sufi poets and saints Multan can easily be described as the epicentre of spread of Islam in this part of the world.
Without going into the specifics of Sufism and its problems, the links between Sindh and Saraiki belt remain strong. This region needs to have a separate province. Perhaps in time this will happen.
A

 

[Gripen9]

I remember reading that this incident was totally nothing which was debriefed to them prior to mission but they changed their plans themselves on the battlefield as they saw a good chance.

However, such things might please Those in charge as well as displease them.

The ops are mostly planned keeping in mind the planning of tri services and never a single service isolated plan, although this was a great move but I would term it unprofessional as they disobeyed their seniors, Might have raised complications for following PA attacks to which the original PAF debrief was a pre requisite

Are you sure about that? Because from what I recall it was always to interdict Kalaikunda AB more as a harassing strike. It was at the extreme range with 4 drop tanks. They couldn't have done anything else with just .50 cal machine guns.

 

[TomCat]

It is part of the Saraiki belt. They have links with both Sindh and Punjab as well as Baluchistan. The heart of Sufism movement and a source of great sufi poets and saints Multan can easily be described as the epicentre of spread of Islam in this part of the world.
Without going into the specifics of Sufism and its problems, the links between Sindh and Saraiki belt remain strong. This region needs to have a separate province. Perhaps in time this will happen.
A

As much I Have everyday problems with saraikis ( uneducated class ONLY) on roads, The jungli rickshaw driving, banging good cars and then crying their pockets out after destroying the beauty of someone’s cars Just by their jangli dehati driving,

I find siraiki people very beautiful in their own way, They are mostly cool, Their taste of music is also unique, And they are sort of poetic and “Mazloom” people, Back in their villages, They are not provided their rights and even basic necessities just due to racism in punjab assembly.

They deserve a separate province and good leaders to help sort their problems (and also implement strict birth control policies, They score 8 kids before 28)

 

[TomCat]

Are you sure about that? Because from what I recall it was always to interdict Kalaikunda AB more as a harassing strike. It was at the extreme range with 4 drop tanks. They couldn't have done anything else with just .50 cal machine guns.

I am sorry, I might most probably be wrong as I am not much into military history, However, This is what I have felt, Off course, Will research on it once I feel to

 

[Zeeman]

I have read about 1965 war extensively and from what I recall it wasn’t any on the target change of plan or target of opportunity .

The entire plan was to strike the airfield pre emotive my and inflict as much damage as possible. If I remember we only had one squadron of Sabres in East Pakistan and we needed to destroy these bombers on the ground .

Had they flown and attacked we would be too thinly spread out to counter multiple IAF squadrons.

Value of such attack? I dont rememberIAF attacking us in Bengal after this attack.

 

[Gripen9]

I have read about 1965 war extensively and from what I recall it wasn’t any on the target change of plan or target of opportunity .

The entire plan was to strike the airfield pre emotive my and inflict as much damage as possible. If I remember we only had one squadron of Sabres in East Pakistan and we needed to destroy these bombers on the ground .

Had they flown and attacked we would be too thinly spread out to counter multiple IAF squadrons.

Value of such attack? I dont rememberIAF attacking us in Bengal after this attack.

Yes, only 18 F-86s of the 14 SQN. IAF eastern command was shell shocked afterwards and did not operate a single sortie in the eastern theater.
They were also known as lonely 14. In 1971 they faced against 280 fighters of IAF Eastern Command. Mig21s & Su7s mostly. And they were still executing combat operations till indian tanks rolled onto the airfield at Tejgoan. We actually destroyed the last 9-11 aircraft ourself right before surrender . C-130s and PIA Twin Otters were used to withdraw as many families and personnel as possible to Burma and from there to China and then Pakistan.

 

[Gripen9]

Respected members can we avoid off-topic discussion.... Like shifting capital here and there....? Everything is humbly stated no offense please

Sorry bro, just saw this message. Took a trip down history lane

 

[Zeeman]

Yes they sprayed their engines with the machine gun fire and made holes in their wings. Total of 10 Sabres were self destroyed. After the war Bangladeshis flew a few of them for a while and then retired them as gate guards and at the war museum.

I once had the pictures of damaged planes. Don’t know what I did with them .

 

[Khafee]

Yes, only 18 F-86s of the 14 SQN. IAF eastern command was shell shocked afterwards and did not operate a single sortie in the eastern theater.
They were also known as lonely 14. In 1971 they faced against 280 fighters of IAF Eastern Command. Mig21s & Su7s mostly. And they were still executing combat operations till indian tanks rolled onto the airfield at Tejgoan. We actually destroyed the last 9-11 aircraft ourself right before surrender . C-130s and PIA Twin Otters were used to withdraw as many families and personnel as possible to Burma and from there to China and then Pakistan.

Twin Otter

Maybe I'm mistaken, but weren't S61's also used to evacuate to Burma?

 

[Gripen9]

Twin Otter


Maybe I'm mistaken, but weren't S61's also used to evacuate to Burma?
View attachment 14078
View attachment 14079

I think the S-61s were withdrawn by 1966 after a crash. Don't recall ever hearing about them.

Accident Sikorsky S-61N AP-AOC, Wednesday 2 February 1966

Crashed. There were 3 crew members and 21 passengers aboard the helicopter. One passenger (A. Mannan) survived. A Main Gearbox oil leak occurred sometime before 14:19 from an external pip...

aviation-safety.net

 

[TomCat]

Twin Otter
View attachment 14080

Maybe I'm mistaken, but weren't S61's also used to evacuate to Burma?
View attachment 14078
View attachment 14079

When I was a kid,
Good times of PIA, They handed kids a special PIA History book, Had around 10-12 pages, These pics were the book. I got this book as a gift while my bro got a Nuggets box and a kids meal, I argued, We traded our items, I got the meal and he got the PIA book

 

[Signalian]

Hey, it's not the machine's fault monkeys where using it..

Still, Flanker is not an easy aircraft to maintain and overhaul.