Acquisition of J-15 for PAF- Air Superiority & Deep Strike Platfrom

[Araz]

Possible but unlikely as PLAAF will never allow PAF pilots to fly their planes. Secondly platform integration(I remain an enthusiast rather than a Professional) would require much more than merely being able to fly the platform. Tactics for and against the platform, getting used to the strengths and weaknesses and developing strategies to best use platform are all issues which need considering. I would not have issues with J10 being integrated due to lack of familiarity of IAF, but IAF knows each nut and bolt of the SU srries and J15 cannot be much different. Lastly what advantege does it give us over IAF and their Rafale acquisition? Is AESA and the long range missile(name has escaped me???PL15) enough when you have a big arse plane visible from ahuge distance.
Lastly an induction for 3 decades at the cusp of change of generation also puzzles me. As I said I have questions which my brain cannot answer. It is OK to say we are inducting XY or Z but for what purpose and to what advantage is what I want to know.
A

 

[Caprxl]

Interesting write up, agreed to some points, will disagree with most but the one which intrigues me most is;

Possible but unlikely as PLAAF will never allow PAF pilots to fly their planes.

My question is, Why won't they?

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Possible but unlikely as PLAAF will never allow PAF pilots to fly their planes. Secondly platform integration(I remain an enthusiast rather than a Professional) would require much more than merely being able to fly the platform. Tactics for and against the platform, getting used to the strengths and weaknesses and developing strategies to best use platform are all issues which need considering. I would not have issues with J10 being integrated due to lack of familiarity of IAF, but IAF knows each nut and bolt of the SU srries and J15 cannot be much different. Lastly what advantege does it give us over IAF and their Rafale acquisition? Is AESA and the long range missile(name has escaped me???PL15) enough when you have a big arse plane visible from ahuge distance.
Lastly an induction for 3 decades at the cusp of change of generation also puzzles me. As I said I have questions which my brain cannot answer. It is OK to say we are inducting XY or Z but for what purpose and to what advantage is what I want to know.
A

They ready have

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Interesting write up, agreed to some points, will disagree with most but the one which intrigues me most is;



My question is, Why won't they?

Havent they already done so? If I'm not mistaken.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

I was about to reply but saw @Counter-Errorist Threat of having to create a Thread , so I backed off Will wait for some other member to create the thread & then respond there brother.



Why dont you create it ?

Why is everyone so lazy on this forum lol? Everyone likes to talk but when it comes to opening a new thread they all run away.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Possible but unlikely as PLAAF will never allow PAF pilots to fly their planes. Secondly platform integration(I remain an enthusiast rather than a Professional) would require much more than merely being able to fly the platform. Tactics for and against the platform, getting used to the strengths and weaknesses and developing strategies to best use platform are all issues which need considering. I would not have issues with J10 being integrated due to lack of familiarity of IAF, but IAF knows each nut and bolt of the SU srries and J15 cannot be much different. Lastly what advantege does it give us over IAF and their Rafale acquisition? Is AESA and the long range missile(name has escaped me???PL15) enough when you have a big arse plane visible from ahuge distance.
Lastly an induction for 3 decades at the cusp of change of generation also puzzles me. As I said I have questions which my brain cannot answer. It is OK to say we are inducting XY or Z but for what purpose and to what advantage is what I want to know.
A

According to @Khafee the birds for us are different then the ones the PLAAF flies. Let alone the indian Su's.

 

[Armchair]

Action will have reactions. That is an extreme scenario I do not see plausible at all. Max production rate for F-35 is 150/year. You have orders from Nato allies, Korea, SG, Australia, Israel, Japan on top of that USAF/USN/USMC. 100 aircraft for India cannot just materialize within a year.
Even if it did, 100 F-35 package with all associated infra cost is over 12-15B. Do you think India is in a position today to fund that?

I believe it can, and they can afford it (and they may get CSF like benefits to subsidize them). In addition, we see a number of countries reducing their F-35 buys and Turkey has been kicked out.

You have to understand the scale and pace at which F-35s are being produced. Even a 5% increase in production would cover a lot. They have a capacity to produce 180 units per year.

 

[Armchair]

Possible but unlikely as PLAAF will never allow PAF pilots to fly their planes. Secondly platform integration(I remain an enthusiast rather than a Professional) would require much more than merely being able to fly the platform. Tactics for and against the platform, getting used to the strengths and weaknesses and developing strategies to best use platform are all issues which need considering. I would not have issues with J10 being integrated due to lack of familiarity of IAF, but IAF knows each nut and bolt of the SU srries and J15 cannot be much different. Lastly what advantege does it give us over IAF and their Rafale acquisition? Is AESA and the long range missile(name has escaped me???PL15) enough when you have a big arse plane visible from ahuge distance.
Lastly an induction for 3 decades at the cusp of change of generation also puzzles me. As I said I have questions which my brain cannot answer. It is OK to say we are inducting XY or Z but for what purpose and to what advantage is what I want to know.
A

Hi Araz, Su-30 series and J-11 series with Chinese avionics, radar, EW, etc have completely different electronic signatures. They are different beasts altogether. They may have similar flying characteristics, but in this age and time, the key is the electronics. So India may know the nuts and bolts but nuts and bolts can only take you so far.

 

[Araz]

Hi Araz, Su-30 series and J-11 series with Chinese avionics, radar, EW, etc have completely different electronic signatures. They are different beasts altogether. They may have similar flying characteristics, but in this age and time, the key is the electronics. So India may know the nuts and bolts but nuts and bolts can only take you so far.

According to @Khafee the birds for us are different then the ones the PLAAF flies. Let alone the indian Su's.

Dear both .
It is said a rose by any other name............
I am just voiceing my views here which may go against the grain of thought.
The plane maybe different from software and weapons point of view but aerodynamics cannot be changed so basic responses of a platform remain the same. The question I am seeking answers to and listed in the post above are not answered so far.
My own thought is these are pressure tactics for the US. They may call our bluff and we may go for it but it does not make sense to me from many points of views. Lastly is the issue of intellectual property rights and the Red bear may well object. So far the chinese have not exported this bird(unless this has now been somehow resolved).

 

[Armchair]

Why is everyone so lazy on this forum lol? Everyone likes to talk but when it comes to opening a new thread they all run away.

Its not just laziness, opening a thread kind of makes me feel responsible for it. Like a baby. I'm not ready for a baby yet.

 

[TsAr]

No sir on Mall road near the canal crossing

that is a different office they have, where in 2009 i guess there was a bomb blast.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Its not just laziness, opening a thread kind of makes me feel responsible for it. Like a baby. I'm not ready for a baby yet.

And I dont know how to open one hahahaha

 

[Safri167]

Dear both .
It is said a rose by any other name............
I am just voiceing my views here which may go against the grain of thought.
The plane maybe different from software and weapons point of view but aerodynamics cannot be changed so basic responses of a platform remain the same. The question I am seeking answers to and listed in the post above are not answered so far.
My own thought is these are pressure tactics for the US. They may call our bluff and we may go for it but it does not make sense to me from many points of views. Lastly is the issue of intellectual property rights and the Red bear may well object. So far the chinese have not exported this bird(unless this has now been somehow resolved).

Sir what would you recommend for naval air arm, deep strike using ocean, protection of naval EEZ, EW growler type of role?

 

[Armchair]

Dear both .
It is said a rose by any other name............
I am just voiceing my views here which may go against the grain of thought.
The plane maybe different from software and weapons point of view but aerodynamics cannot be changed so basic responses of a platform remain the same. The question I am seeking answers to and listed in the post above are not answered so far.
My own thought is these are pressure tactics for the US. They may call our bluff and we may go for it but it does not make sense to me from many points of views. Lastly is the issue of intellectual property rights and the Red bear may well object. So far the chinese have not exported this bird(unless this has now been somehow resolved).

I think there are two issues you're touching upon (just summarizing what you said):
1. Aerodynamic similarity - there is marginal utility in modern combat for this, as one is not engaging in turning dogfights but standoff electronically driven war. Gone are the days that understanding the aerodynamics of a plane helps you figure out its weakness in a dogfight.
In fact today, with computer simulation, you can largely figure out the aerodynamic performance of any plane. When we talk about the real world, this becomes even more obvious - Indians have already figured out the aerodynamics of the F-16, the Mirage, etc simply from espionage and from flying against these (or even in these) with their friendly allies.
Does that mean the F-16 is now fatally flawed for the PAF?
2. Issue of intellectual property. This point is moot if something is on its way already. This point may have been relevant if we were part of the initial decision and discussing whether to acquire the J-11s or not, or they were acquirable. Not relevant if the deal has already been made and the planes are to arrive in a month.

 

[Counter-Errorist]

Its not just laziness, opening a thread kind of makes me feel responsible for it. Like a baby. I'm not ready for a baby yet.

That's exactly it. You feel obligated to maintain and update it. So someone invested into the topic needs to make it.