China Sells J-10 Fourth Generation Fighters to Pakistan

[Bayernulan]

Hi,

It is a complimentary high end 4.5 gen addition to the PAF.


PAF has stayed away from a twin tail twin engine aircraft---due to operational costs---& maintenance heavy issues---.

It really does need a heavy strike aircraft which can carry at least 2 anti ship missiles 1000 Kg weight class each.

Thanks for your answer.
I presume however that a possible J-16 strike a/c it is more of a financial issue, then a maintenance/qualification issue - even though the "costs" are indeed an undeniable factor.
It could very well be that in 5-10 years (certainly depending on the GDP) the next step of the PAF might be directed towards a J-20 instead of a 4.5 generation J-16 or in case of following a single engine doctrine it could be a J-31 just as well.
Till then keep complementing/phasing out F-16's with the J-10D/E/F

 

[Mastankhan]

hm... sounds promising - and which aircraft is it supposed to replace or is it rather viewed as a complement?

Hi,

It is a complimentary high end 4.5 gen addition to the PAF.

The J-10D is certainly a great aircraft and useful for the PAF - I wonder though why Pakistan isn't going for the J-16 multi-role fighter bomber.

PAF has stayed away from a twin tail twin engine aircraft---due to operational costs---& maintenance heavy issues---.

It really does need a heavy strike aircraft which can carry at least 2 anti ship missiles 1000 Kg weight class each.

Thanks for your answer.
I presume however that a possible J-16 strike a/c it is more of a financial issue, then a maintenance/qualification issue - even though the "costs" are indeed an undeniable factor.
It could very well be that in 5-10 years (certainly depending on the GDP) the next step of the PAF might be directed towards a J-20 instead of a 4.5 generation J-16 or in case of following a single engine doctrine it could be a J-31 just as well.
Till then keep complementing/phasing out F-16's with the J-10D/E/F

Hi,

The strike aircraft is the JF17---. That was declared I believe in 2008 by the ACM---which came as a surprise to me and many other---because we needed an air superiority fighter.

Cost is not the issue because both the J10 and the JF17 use the same weapons other than the SD10 for the JF17 and PL15 for the J10's and Paf has a stockpile of those in store.

The first 36 J10's would stay in the air superiority mode as a primary role for awhile.

 

[Bayernulan]

IMO an a/c such as the JF-17 was born out of the intention to provide low$ countries with an alternative towards Mig-29, or second hand F-16/Mirage etc. In view to India most likely to counter the IAF's inventory in regards to Jaguars, Mig21's and the Tejas.

Since Pakistan seems to be far more advanced in regards to "controlling/managing" it's AF inventory purchases compared to India, I wouldn't be surprised if by 2025-2030 the PAF inventory will simply consist of J-10's and e.g. a J-31 or J-20. With or without the existing JF-17.

Numerically I think it is unrealistic to expect the PAF to ever be on numbers with the IAF. But India got itself stuck onto a Su-57 (which will either never happen or will take an additional decade to acquire. So if the PAF is able to field a 5th generation aircraft by 2025-2030 it would indeed be a serious match. - just my 5 cents

 

[Mastankhan]

IMO an a/c such as the JF-17 was born out of the intention to provide low$ countries with an alternative towards Mig-29, or second hand F-16/Mirage etc. In view to India most likely to counter the IAF's inventory in regards to Jaguars, Mig21's and the Tejas.

Since Pakistan seems to be far more advanced in regards to "controlling/managing" it's AF inventory purchases compared to India, I wouldn't be surprised if by 2025-2030 the PAF inventory will simply consist of J-10's and e.g. a J-31 or J-20. With or without the existing JF-17.

Numerically I think it is unrealistic to expect the PAF to ever be on numbers with the IAF. But India got itself stuck onto a Su-57 (which will either never happen or will take an additional decade to acquire. So if the PAF is able to field a 5th generation aircraft by 2025-2030 it would indeed be a serious match. - just my 5 cents

Hi,

Primarily---JF17 came about to meet the needs of the Paf. The end product projected ability which attracted many a foreign countries---. But for a nation like pakistan---just to break into sales was a phenomenal effort.

The shortcoming in sales was a lack of A "DUAL SEATER" aircraft right from the begining---. That poor decision may have cost Paf a potential sale of maybe 200-300 extra aircraft. The argentinian air marshall has been known to say many a years ago---" how can I make a decision if I cannot fly the aircraft"---.

Numerically---Paf does not need to match indian air force. Because of our geography---we can do with a minimum of 350 aircraft on the low side---but if we have 450 to 500 aircraft---Paf would be in an extremely strong position.

With 500 aircraft---Paf can take on a 750-900 #'d inidan air force and that is only due to our geography---and with those #'s of IAF---they would still be in trouble because they would have to keep a certain # on the chinese front.

Paf will delay the 5th gen program for as long as they can---. The AESA equipped JF17 the BLK 3 is a long term aircraft---it is the first phase of the 4.5 gen JF17 BLK 3 aircraft---which is going thru its final stages of integration / induction or induction / integration.

 

[Bayernulan]

Hi,

Primarily---JF17 came about to meet the needs of the Paf. The end product projected ability which attracted many a foreign countries---. But for a nation like pakistan---just to break into sales was a phenomenal effort.

The shortcoming in sales was a lack of A "DUAL SEATER" aircraft right from the begining---. That poor decision may have cost Paf a potential sale of maybe 200-300 extra aircraft. The argentinian air marshall has been known to say many a years ago---" how can I make a decision if I cannot fly the aircraft"---.

Numerically---Paf does not need to match indian air force. Because of our geography---we can do with a minimum of 350 aircraft on the low side---but if we have 450 to 500 aircraft---Paf would be in an extremely strong position.

With 500 aircraft---Paf can take on a 750-900 #'d inidan air force and that is only due to our geography---and with those #'s of IAF---they would still be in trouble because they would have to keep a certain # on the chinese front.

Paf will delay the 5th gen program for as long as they can---. The AESA equipped JF17 the BLK 3 is a long term aircraft---it is the first phase of the 4.5 gen JF17 BLK 3 aircraft---which is going thru its final stages of integration / induction or induction / integration.

Interesting post: - in regard to designating a JF-17 as being a 4.5 gen aircraft. (very doubtful in view of it's RCS, Antenna measurements and avionics suit). Would you have a link to an extensive comparison, e.g. a Rafale or Eurofighter to a JF-17?

From an armchair-general perspective: the PAF IMO doesn't need 450-500 a/c, but rather e.g. 250 J-10's and a 100 J-20's. But off-course that would necessitate lot's of $$$$ - which Pakistan (and even Germany) simply doesn't have. So overall the present PAF and it's acquisitions IMO is quite well handled.

 

[Mastankhan]

Interesting post: - in regard to designating a JF-17 as being a 4.5 gen aircraft. (very doubtful in view of it's RCS, Antenna measurements and avionics suit). Would you have a link to an extensive comparison, e.g. a Rafale or Eurofighter to a JF-17?

From an armchair-general perspective: the PAF IMO doesn't need 450-500 a/c, but rather e.g. 250 J-10's and a 100 J-20's. But off-course that would necessitate lot's of $$$$ - which Pakistan (and even Germany) simply doesn't have. So overall the present PAF and it's acquisitions IMO is quite well handled.

Hi,

Once the aircraft is put into service---things will slowly come out. Paf has put a very heavy lid on leaks---.

Even with the BLK 2's upgrades---not all the information is out and this aircraft has been in service for a few years now.

350 is on the lower side as of now---. Modern warfare with similarly equipped weapons---the atrocity rate will be pretty high in the first few days.

 

[Bayernulan]

Hi Mastankhan, - regarding your profile logo

Are you familiar with the LP episode were Cheech and Chong are watching several TV channels?

I think Cheech (speaking with English/Japanese accent)
Tomorrow when the sun of Nippon rises - all our planes will take off and look for the American fleet.
Upon seeing them we will dive our planes onto their ships - killing everybody including our-self's - has anybody any questions?
I think Chong: - are you F... crazy?

One of my all-time favorites

 

[Mastankhan]

Hi Mastankhan, - regarding your profile logo

Are you familiar with the LP episode were Cheech and Chong are watching several TV channels?

I think Cheech (speaking with English/Japanese accent)
Tomorrow when the sun of Nippon rises - all our planes will take off and look for the American fleet.
Upon seeing them we will dive our planes onto their ships - killing everybody including our-self's - has anybody any questions?
I think Chong: - are you F... crazy?

One of my all-time favorites

Hi,

I have not---but would love to watch it.