Egyptian Mirage V Horus released after stiff opposition from India.

[Pakhtoon yum]

Dear Sir,

I have been following you on this and the other forum for a decade now and i usually understand your perspective. However in this instance i fail to do so.
I have lived in the GCC (ksa+uae) for 28 yrs and just recently moved to north america.
The way the GCC families looked at Pakistan in general was cheap labour, servants and hired guns and same would have continued had we helped with yemen.

Guaranteed jobs - this benefit has already been squeezed dry since the formation of OIC. Infact our people helped develop institutions for the GCC states while during the same period in homeland the same institutes were being torn apart (classic case of PIA v Emirates). Yes we have earned a few billion dollars in forex reserves each year but our increased reliance on this income has become a weakness which is now being exploited by our GCC friends.

A very important point that i do not see in the assesment of most people about GCC-PAK relations is the exponential growth of Indian influnce in the GCC. The most number of small and medium size business owners in the UAE are Indians and i can say that based on facts and figures which i was privy to when i worked in Dubai and the SMEs provided 70% employment in UAE so one can understand the impact on economy.
Further there are now several large size indian firms operating in oil& gas and construction sector in GCC.
Point i am trying to make is that GCC may help Pakistan but not at the expense of tbeir relations with India. It is now time that we re-visit our GCC policy.

We were at war imposed on us by our enemies using proxies (TTP), it was a long and bloody war with many military and civilian lives lost, the lessons learnt from that war helped us to not dive head first into another war. We would not have survived it.
Saudi cities are under constant threat of missile/rocket attacks, Iran is our next door neighbour and we have several Irani lobbyist in Pak as you have rightly pointed out, so why take the risk. Why should we disturb the fragile peace we have achieved at such heavy cost.

What GCC asked of us and the timing of it was wrong and what they offered in return could not have been good enough to bite. As i said they would not offer anything to us at the expense of india, because they cant do it.

Lastly, the pot is not as full as it used to be. GCC's economy is not doing well is an understatement.

Wonderfully put. That's what I've been trying to highlight too. We should put our own house in order first before helping anyone else.

Yemen also started during our own operations in FATA and heated skirmishes with the Farsiban army of "Afghanistan".

Regarding the small and large businesses operating in GCC. Then I'm afraid that is not the fault of the Arabs or their discrimination towards us. That is the shortcomings of our government and our peoples mindsets. If our government was sane and acted like a governing body then it would've encouraged Pakistani expats to open their own business. From small take aways to construction and taxi companies.

GOP should have released a loan system for those expats. Where grats and loans would've been given to then with deferred payments for a few months to a year. Along with advice and case studies. That would've given them enough time to start profiting. Sure it might have been a burden at the start but the fruits it would've bared would have been worthwhile. From influence to more money being sent back to Pakistan.

Most of those companies should've been encouraged to buy from Pakistan too. For example cement.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

we make our own impression being slaves, we were fighting politics, derailing civilian govts, snatching premiership from each other, very busy in the homeland for decades, this is us which we are not proud of. did not treat them business partners and kept shouting out loud 'muslim brothers' and seeking help. they always give us jobs by having mercy although it was their need for work force still kept upper hand.

india was developing relations during those times, developing business environment and we see huge investments in india today. interests talk there is no muslim brotherhood no such thing with which we fooled ourselves.

and we lost the opportunity came to our door, war was a blessing for us and as @Mastankhan said an opportunity that comes once in a life time and we let it go. war was inevitable, there was a standing in it for us and the share the impact was enormous. our standing among them gave us a position where they sees us with their heads upward.

Your also very correct and I agree with all your initial comments. Unfortunately the phrase "Muslim brothers" only works when you grab them by the neck and yall it in their ears. Meaning you have to dominate the relations for them to take you seriously. Which we lack severely.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Hi,

Respect is earned by actions and not talk---availing every opportunity and making the best of it first of all.

See---almost all of our leadership in the last 50 years have been thugs other than Zia---Musharraf---IK. Now when you have thugs as your leadership and thieves as your representatives---it is very difficult to get respect---but that should not stop the public----you have to keep ploughing on---.

The biggest problem that the pakistanis had was with their mindset that the GCC would always need them and they would be irreplacable---.

Well the only time you are irreplacable is when you have weapons and you are guarding their territory and winning them battles---you were offered the post of JANISSARIES---the most veneered position that a poor ally nation could dream of whose only major commodity is soldiers---and you rejected it with insults and humiliation and degrading the GCC citizens---.

We have often talked down the arabs that they are not worthy---they are lazy---they cannot work---they don't know how to work---they are weak---they don't have learning capabilities---they did not deserve the wealth that they got---and so many other thing that you have to take int account---.

Again---the bottomline is---if our leadership respects you and the country they represent---foreigners will also respect you---.

But when your leadeship steals money from your country and sends it in suit cases and motor boats filled with cash to GCC countries---what do you think the the GCC people feel about you---. Maybe like dirt---.

6-7 years---I have been writing about Yemen crisis---about rewards benefits retribution rejection consequences and one by one they all came true---.

The GCC in their anger cut us off and allied with our enemy---but that was momentary---. And now that the GCC is weak we are going to see the GCC facing some dire consequences staged by our primary enemy---.

The GCC is going to be cornered---it is going to be strangulated and if the administration is toppled---don't be surprised to see the enemy's armies marching in to take charge.

Do not be surprised to see Idols sitting in Khana Ka'aba and Masjid a Nabvi in the coming future---.

The enemy has the GCC and Pakistan and other muslim nations where it wants it to be at this stage---. It is just waiting for the TOP HEAVY administrations of GCC tumble down and chaos to erupt---.

Just be ready to see your HOLY places to be taken over rather sooner than later---.

Raheel Shareef's cowardice and lack of vision will be written in yellow in the history books---.

Iran is a pariah nation---Iran is a death trap---. Every nation that sided with Iran saw death and destruction beyond their imagination---. Iran set them up to face destruction just to save itself---. Controlling Iran was very easy for pakistan---. Not a single country in the world would have shed a tear if two or three major iranian centers were taken out---. The general public of Iran would have been grateful for their freedom from this repressive regime---.

Infact it is us Pakistanis that are not worthy, that are lazy, that cannot work, thay do not work that did not deserve its wealth which was taken away. We lost it all and started from 0.

I have a few questions regarding your stance on this argument. I apologize if you have answered these questions before.

1. If Pakistan had joined the conflict in Yemen. What would've been stoping iran from bombing pakistani cities? They already recruited people from Pakistan and they would simple triple their man power. We had just come out of a bloody war and for the first time our cities didnt have the sent of gun powder and split blood, early in the morning. (I remember the scenes vividly like other pakistani children at the time)

2. What if the Arabs fell through and only delayed to give us any compensations?

3. Do you think it's too late to jump in now because I think this is an even better opportunity now. The pandemic has affected the arabs greatly and we are fencing/arming our border with Iran. Also many events have taken place from the initial offer to now. Which has caused the shia population to distance themselves from iran. Ex this pandemic and what iran did to the pilgrims.

You had people coming on TV and gatherings stating their loyalties to Pakistan and cursing Iran for the first time.

I believe if we renew that and start to run programs on the effected pilgrims and their losses on TV and radio. It would do wonders.

 

[Mastankhan]

Infact it is us Pakistanis that are not worthy, that are lazy, that cannot work, thay do not work that did not deserve its wealth which was taken away. We lost it all and started from 0.

I have a few questions regarding your stance on this argument. I apologize if you have answered these questions before.

1. If Pakistan had joined the conflict in Yemen. What would've been stoping iran from bombing pakistani cities? They already recruited people from Pakistan and they would simple triple their man power. We had just come out of a bloody war and for the first time our cities didnt have the sent of gun powder and split blood, early in the morning. (I remember the scenes vividly like other pakistani children at the time)

2. What if the Arabs fell through and only delayed to give us any compensations?

3. Do you think it's too late to jump in now because I think this is an even better opportunity now. The pandemic has affected the arabs greatly and we are fencing/arming our border with Iran. Also many events have taken place from the initial offer to now. Which has caused the shia population to distance themselves from iran. Ex this pandemic and what iran did to the pilgrims.

You had people coming on TV and gatherings stating their loyalties to Pakistan and cursing Iran for the first time.

I believe if we renew that and start to run programs on the effected pilgrims and their losses on TV and radio. It would do wonders.

Hi,

You did not read my post clearly---. We would target three of their major locations with something special and take out their leadership.

Iran would be free---and the world would be a better place.

Does the GCC needs us now militarily---how about we ask @Khafee this question.

 

[space cadet]

Hi,

You did not read my post clearly---. We would target three of their major locations with something special and take out their leadership.

Iran would be free---and the world would be a better place.

Does the GCC needs us now militarily---how about we ask @Khafee this question.

what are you people talking about?

 

[Khafee]

Hi,

You did not read my post clearly---. We would target three of their major locations with something special and take out their leadership.

Iran would be free---and the world would be a better place.

Does the GCC needs us now militarily---how about we ask @Khafee this question.

Bro, You already know my answer.

I had a very interesting conversation with @Blacklight. He not only has his brothers in the forces, but extended family too, and as it turns out, we have some mutual friends as well.

Him being a Pakistani might be better able to explain what happened, and further more what can be done. The reason I dont indulge in debates too much is, that I have realized people are not here to learn, but put their views across, no matter how ludicrous, and common sense is over ridden by stupidity.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Bro, You already know my answer.

I had a very interesting conversation with @Blacklight. He not only has his brothers in the forces, but extended family too, and as it turns out, we have some mutual friends as well.

Him being a Pakistani might be better able to explain what happened, and further more what can be done. The reason I dont indulge in debates too much is, that I have realized people are not here to learn, but put their views across, no matter how ludicrous, and common sense is over ridden by stupidity.

I'm going to guess and say thats a big "yes" now that there is issues within the coalition and Saudi will need a new partner. Just my guess because from the looks of it the Arabs want different things.

 

[space cadet]

Bro, You already know my answer.

I had a very interesting conversation with @Blacklight. He not only has his brothers in the forces, but extended family too, and as it turns out, we have some mutual friends as well.

Him being a Pakistani might be better able to explain what happened, and further more what can be done. The reason I dont indulge in debates too much is, that I have realized people are not here to learn, but put their views across, no matter how ludicrous, and common sense is over ridden by stupidity.

Khafee, I came here to learn..

 

[Khafee]

I'm going to guess and say thats a big "yes" now that there is issues within the coalition and Saudi will need a new partner. Just my guess because from the looks of it the Arabs want different things.

Not really. Contingency and Redundancy are two things every on prepares for.

You like to be held hostage a minority, then so be it.

 

[Khafee]

Khafee, I came here to learn..

Not talking about you.

Btw the answer to your earlier post is that they were discussing Yemen. When KSA invited them to lead the counter insurgency ops, what thier "No" cost them then, and now.

 

[Gripen9]

Bro, You already know my answer.

I had a very interesting conversation with @Blacklight. He not only has his brothers in the forces, but extended family too, and as it turns out, we have some mutual friends as well.

Him being a Pakistani might be better able to explain what happened, and further more what can be done. The reason I dont indulge in debates too much is, that I have realized people are not here to learn, but put their views across, no matter how ludicrous, and common sense is over ridden by stupidity.

I must say I am a bit ignorant on how the whole case played out. Would love to get knowledgeable people's perspective in plain language of what actually happened. Not interested in hyperbole, hearsay and innuendos. But not in this thread. It need a dedicated thread of its own.

Yemen Conflict - Root Cause, Iran's part and Pakistan's miscalculations.

@Khafee @Blacklight

 

[Khafee]

I must say I am a bit ignorant on how the whole case played out. Would love to get knowledgeable people's perspective in plain language of what actually happened. Not interested in hyperbole, hearsay and innuendos. But not in this thread. It need a dedicated thread of its own.

Yemen Conflict - Root Cause, Iran's part and Pakistan's miscalculations.

@Khafee @Blacklight

Make a new thread, go for it sport!

 

[Gripen9]

Make a new thread, go for it sport!

I think I will. Same for the "Syrian War for Dummies". There are so many fluid sides in there. In both cases Yemeni & Syrian ordinary populace has suffered immensely

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Not really. Contingency and Redundancy are two things every on prepares for.

You like to be held hostage a minority, then so be it.

Fair enough, I guess.

 

[space cadet]

Not talking about you.

Btw the answer to your earlier post is that they were discussing Yemen. When KSA invited them to lead the counter insurgency ops, what thier "No" cost them then, and now.

yea, I got that part, but the talk seemed to go into the crazy realm