Egyptian Mirage V Horus released after stiff opposition from India.

[Araz]

F16's taking over from Mirage 3's only in the ADA role. What about ground attack? A/c's have structural lives, which can be increased, but ultimately PAF does need a replacement, and there is no way a J10C costs $60m.

As to your statement: " time and cost of integration of hardware manpower development " This is the cost of doing business effectively. If you keep cutting corners, sooner or later it will come back to bite you in the rear.

What PAF pulled of last feb, may not alwasy be possible, and I'm sure they are prepared for it.

I dont see the 16s in the role which is the M3/5 current role ie ground attack. If at all we will have a MR platform doing the job it was meant to do. This also depends on whether we can get more platforms from US. Whether this role will go to the JFTBs or not remains to be seen but personally I dont see the J10s coming any time soon. As to the 60 million cost one of the main beef between the PAF and PLAAF was thatcthe expected cost of J10 A was quoted around 48 million whereas PAF wanted to pay 28 million. The cost of Cs is going to be much higher and likely to be around 60 million. I suspect there is some bargaining going on between PAF and PLAAF and the 16s are being put against the Cs to get a favourable deal.
Let us see how this will pan out. I dont see anything till the block 3 gets inducted. PAF has never inducted 2 platforms simultaneously so this is unlikely to bappen. As I said earlier I am only surmising and you are a professional in the know. So I M happy to be proven wrong.

 

[MominKhan]

Good to see you here after a long time.
A

Thanks. Did you have the same handle on Pakdef?

Don’t plan to post much here. More interested in learning from others.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Did you in a previous incarnation go by Dizasta?

There is only current me nothing before and nothing in the future.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Well your posts remind me of a certain handle on Pakdef.

I went by the same handle before I was banned for speaking up against the censorship that happens there. That's the only handle I've had and will have

@Tunamelt your opinion on my posts above is needed.

 

[Mastankhan]

IA once I am free I will reply in detail, but any solution in Afgh is not possible without the approval of the Taliban. They have to be on board, otherwise it will be very difficult.

@Pakhtoon yum & @Cookie Monster have some good ideas

Hi,

He snared you into a trap---. You were talking about the aircraft---he brought in AFG and taliban.

Ask yourself this question Khafee---what is he doing here on this forum---?

 

[Khafee]

Hi,

He snared you into a trap---. You were talking about the aircraft---he brought in AFG and taliban.

Ask yourself this question Khafee---what is he doing here on this forum---?

No trap, he is very frank with me, this thread like all our other threads have been getting derailed, because I'm busy with work. My fault. Apologies

On Afg - New thread created:

Post US withdrawl Afghanistan

We seem to be having a lot of discussion on this topic, by derailing different threads. Pls discuss it here, and any more derailment of threads, I will just delete the posts. Thanks! @Armchair @ali razza @Cookie Monster @TsAr @Zulu @Zeeman @Counter-Errorist @Gripen9 @Scorpio @Mastankhan @War...

world-defense.com

 

[Blackbirdz!]

There are 2 or 3 reasons.
Firstly PAF has active inventory and infrastructure making it logical to buy more 16s.
Secondly PAF wants mature tech to counter the Rafale buy and it seems the only logical answer is F16 within our constraints both time and money wise.
We are within a decade of producing our own 5th generation plane. Why do we want to add another 4th generation plane holding us ransom till the next 30 years.
I would not believe Chinese propaganda about J10 as PAF seems remarkably calm about the prospects of not procuring J10s. This ether means we are playing some big game or we are not interested. The latter will need to be answered and the most likely one would be we will induct block 3 and then assess what ks needed and how to get it. It is interesting that no other nation has bought J10 either.
A

read my last two paragraphs of the post you quoted in the above reply, then read your post again!

 

[Mastankhan]

question is, why is this American equipment so necessary for Pakistan at all?

given they are sanctionable and have operational restrictions ie F16C/D cant do deep attacks inside indian territory.

While on the otherhand, J10C/D is already at technological level of F16V, without any restrictions and even can be brought with full ToT.

In the end, we have to see our benefit, specially the industrial benefit over mere operational and human comfort since our pilots can be trusted as Good ones to say the least,

its not the weapon, but the man behind the weapon who makes the difference.

Hi,

In the weapons world and when you have a large enemy sitting next to you---Industrial Benefit is of a secondary issue---.

Operational benefit is first and foremost---.

As for 'man behind the machine'---only up to some extent---.

A Yehudan proved it to the muslim world how it was done close to 50 years ago---.

 

[Blackbirdz!]

Hi,

In the weapons world and when you have a large enemy sitting next to you---Industrial Benefit is of a secondary issue---.

Operational benefit is first and foremost---.

As for 'man behind the machine'---only up to some extent---.

A Yehudan proved it to the muslim world how it was done close to 50 years ago---.

what abt sanctions and operational restrictions like F16C/Ds cant leave the Pakistani airspace and bases without American permission, ie cant do deep strikes in india!

Threat of sanctions is another major issue,
''Operational benefit is first and foremost---.'' doesnt makes sense to me in this threat scenario.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

what abt sanctions and operational restrictions like F16C/Ds cant leave the Pakistani airspace and bases without American permission, ie cant do deep strikes in india!

Threat of sanctions is another major issue,
''Operational benefit is first and foremost---.'' doesnt makes sense to me in this threat scenario.

That's why most members here are highlighting the need for a redundant solution like the J-10

 

[Armchair]

So, the Horus are here and its time to celebrate. They have the same radar - RC-400 that the PAF wanted for the JF-17s. I'm glad the JF-17s have much better radars today. I would love to see if the new Chinese integrative pylon can turn these into BVR platforms. Wonder what they will use for WVR - what the Egyptians currently use on them other than the MICA.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

So, the Horus are here and its time to celebrate. They have the same radar - RC-400 that the PAF wanted for the JF-17s. I'm glad the JF-17s have much better radars today. I would love to see if the new Chinese integrative pylon can turn these into BVR platforms. Wonder what they will use for WVR - what the Egyptians currently use on them other than the MICA.

How many? And how do you know?

 

[Cookie Monster]

So, the Horus are here and its time to celebrate. They have the same radar - RC-400 that the PAF wanted for the JF-17s. I'm glad the JF-17s have much better radars today. I would love to see if the new Chinese integrative pylon can turn these into BVR platforms. Wonder what they will use for WVR - what the Egyptians currently use on them other than the MICA.

Chinese integrative pylon? Could u elaborate? I would like to read up on it.

 

[Armchair]

Thanks. Did you have the same handle on Pakdef?

Don’t plan to post much here. More interested in learning from others.

I remember you from Pakdef my friend. Always sensible and informative posts. Feel at ease to share your thoughts and opinions here. Welcome to the forum.

 

[Blackbirdz!]

That's why most members here are highlighting the need for a redundant solution like the J-10

aaao kanna marran!