Egyptian Mirage V Horus released after stiff opposition from India.

[AliYusuf]

I remember some member here correcting my post...adding that PAF Mirages are also datalinked(using Link 17).

Was it you @AliYusuf?

@Khafee can Pak add Link 17 to these Horus Mirages?

Frankly don't remember, sorry. But AFAIK, at least some (maybe most) PAF Mirages are connected via Link-17.

 

[Mingle]

Frankly don't remember, sorry. But AFAIK, at least some (maybe most) PAF Mirages are connected via Link-17.

They are I remember on wjahat program with CCS pilot told him link 17

 

[Armchair]

Interesting idea to increase numbers. You have taken your hunch from the news creeping out of possible upgrade of M3/5s. The question remains that if it be so what radar are they using. The other issue is lack of hardpoints on M3/5s, I dont think they woll be able to carry more than 4 missiles at a time but that should be enough. The real questionis the radars. Also how do the Horus M5s fit in to this equation. Why does PAF want these planes. Heck no oneis even clear that they are Horus Mirages of just their Mirages in storage.
A

I think with realignment of Pakistan so closely with China, it is a matter of time before the US slaps sanctions in some form or the other, after their Afghanistan withdrawal. F-16s will suffer from sanctions as they did after Pressler. Flight times were severely curtailed and Pakistan was even unable to keep jets operational during Kargil. The feeble spares were kept in hand in the event of a full scale war.

I remember those days, a lot of army men were very upset with PAF back then. PAF right now has enough spares to drip feed the F-16s for about 5 years. This is a wise choice, but also a logistically cumbersome choice.

I personally feel that PAF should introduce a LIFT to further reduce F-16 usage and increase their usable life.

 

[Zeeman]

Those days of fearing US sanctions are long gone. There is nothing in our inventory which is not available in a better form through China.

I remember when first time we were sanctioned and the best we could get from China was F-7 which we did. Working and reliable BVR wasn’t even available through China . Today PL15 is one of the most feared AAM and J10 C an awesome platform to carry it.

Americans know their limits. They know they can no longer manipulate or hurt us at all.
If I was an American policy maker I would want to give Pakistanis something they don’t have, is cost effective and easy to integrate into existing eco system to get some leverage back . I would start by offering Block 70/72.

If Americans choose not to step in now I bet the speed at which China is modernizing and progressing we will never look back at them, unless we are offered F35 which will never happen. To me the next few months will decide if we choose to let Americans sphere of influence completely disappear or decide to let them back in. For the first time we are very much in a position to decide ourselves who do we choose as a strategic and a long term reliable partner .

my vote is with the Chinese .

 

[Araz]

I think with realignment of Pakistan so closely with China, it is a matter of time before the US slaps sanctions in some form or the other, after their Afghanistan withdrawal. F-16s will suffer from sanctions as they did after Pressler. Flight times were severely curtailed and Pakistan was even unable to keep jets operational during Kargil. The feeble spares were kept in hand in the event of a full scale war.

I remember those days, a lot of army men were very upset with PAF back then. PAF right now has enough spares to drip feed the F-16s for about 5 years. This is a wise choice, but also a logistically cumbersome choice.

I personally feel that PAF should introduce a LIFT to further reduce F-16 usage and increase their usable life.

LIFT is being looked at but with JFT around AND THE PERRINEAL CASH CONTRAINTS, PAF is possibly stretched between getting a dedicated LIFT or using JFT Bs as LIFT in spite of it not fulfilling the criteria.
A

 

[Safri167]

Those days of fearing US sanctions are long gone. There is nothing in our inventory which is not available in a better form through China.

I remember when first time we were sanctioned and the best we could get from China was F-7 which we did. Working and reliable BVR wasn’t even available through China . Today PL15 is one of the most feared AAM and J10 C an awesome platform to carry it.

Americans know their limits. They know they can no longer manipulate or hurt us at all.
If I was an American policy maker I would want to give Pakistanis something they don’t have, is cost effective and easy to integrate into existing eco system to get some leverage back . I would start by offering Block 70/72.

If Americans choose not to step in now I bet the speed at which China is modernizing and progressing we will never look back at them, unless we are offered F35 which will never happen. To me the next few months will decide if we choose to let Americans sphere of influence completely disappear or decide to let them back in. For the first time we are very much in a position to decide ourselves who do we choose as a strategic and a long term reliable partner .

my vote is with the Chinese .

Bro @Hawkeye

US sanctions on Pakistan and their failure as strategic deterrent | ORF

The US has subjected Pakistan to a unilateral sanctions regime at several crucial junctures in the history of their bilateral ties

www-orfonline-org.cdn.ampproject.org

Found it for you though the source is indian

 

[Zulu]

One of reason those F 16 negotiations going so long and long as pressler amendment scars still very deep on their minds @Gripen9 can u confirm as i heard LM vote is with us ?

I think with realignment of Pakistan so closely with China, it is a matter of time before the US slaps sanctions in some form or the other, after their Afghanistan withdrawal. F-16s will suffer from sanctions as they did after Pressler. Flight times were severely curtailed and Pakistan was even unable to keep jets operational during Kargil. The feeble spares were kept in hand in the event of a full scale war.

I remember those days, a lot of army men were very upset with PAF back then. PAF right now has enough spares to drip feed the F-16s for about 5 years. This is a wise choice, but also a logistically cumbersome choice.

I personally feel that PAF should introduce a LIFT to further reduce F-16 usage and increase their usable life.

 

[Zulu]

We did that mistake back in 79 not able to convert US-PAK relations to strategic one rather than just through AFG prism but frankly dont have much card than .At the moment we in middle of major geo-political shift in world so stakes are high for every player .Pakistan should push for local upgradation facilities to be less dependent in case anything happened in future and F 16 is not as hot cake like 80s-90s but it can pave ways for future F 35 selling for LM for satisfied customers .Hope for first time our status of Major non NATO ally and CENTCOM member do some good for us

I personally feel that after US withdrawal (by November I estimate), there will be little to nothing from the US to Pakistan. It's a transactional relationship. Get what you can now, LM will always be with you because they want to sell and make money. But bigger issues are at play... my 0.02.

 

[Waiting]

Sir, we are no more Non NATO ally.. status removed

 

[Gripen9]

One of reason those F 16 negotiations going so long and long as pressler amendment scars still very deep on their minds @Gripen9 can u confirm as i heard LM vote is with us ?

LM would be in overdrive to lobby for the sale. They have a great relationship with PAF.
On the topic of Afghanistan, I do think thing there will not be 100% US withdrawal. It will keep some presence in the region. I also do not think US would want to totally disengage with Pakistan. That would be disastrous for them in the region. Part of the peace agreement with Taliban as I see it, include Pakistan having a guarantor role in Afghanistan so it doesn't slide back into the state it was and to negate Iranian influence as they try to fill the power vacuum.
What are you basing your feeling that sanctions are around the corner?

 

[Zulu]

U sure friend??as i dont know fate of that bill to removed Pakistan status as usual jiss maar endian bary khush ho rahy thy.State dept ki website par tu abhi tak apna naam hai date 30 january 2020. Major Non-NATO Ally Status - United States Department of State

Sir, we are no more Non NATO ally.. status removed

 

[Scorpio]

Those days of fearing US sanctions are long gone. There is nothing in our inventory which is not available in a better form through China.

I remember when first time we were sanctioned and the best we could get from China was F-7 which we did. Working and reliable BVR wasn’t even available through China . Today PL15 is one of the most feared AAM and J10 C an awesome platform to carry it.

Americans know their limits. They know they can no longer manipulate or hurt us at all.
If I was an American policy maker I would want to give Pakistanis something they don’t have, is cost effective and easy to integrate into existing eco system to get some leverage back . I would start by offering Block 70/72.

If Americans choose not to step in now I bet the speed at which China is modernizing and progressing we will never look back at them, unless we are offered F35 which will never happen. To me the next few months will decide if we choose to let Americans sphere of influence completely disappear or decide to let them back in. For the first time we are very much in a position to decide ourselves who do we choose as a strategic and a long term reliable partner .

my vote is with the Chinese .

Agree, we are not agisnt American weapons thay are good we should get them if have resources but with definitely.
Additional we should have other alternative for these too, so blocking of spares will never be issue in future,
For example of alternative
F16 = J10C/D
Zulus = Z10ME
Etc

 

[Scorpio]

One of reason those F 16 negotiations going so long and long as pressler amendment scars still very deep on their minds @Gripen9 can u confirm as i heard LM vote is with us ?

Sir LM will must be with you, at end thay doing business thay need client to earn . Secondly PAF can use F16 to there max, its open advertisement like 27 feb SU30 kill

 

[Scorpio]

I personally feel that after US withdrawal (by November I estimate), there will be little to nothing from the US to Pakistan. It's a transactional relationship. Get what you can now, LM will always be with you because they want to sell and make money. But bigger issues are at play... my 0.02.

Agree sir, max chances to have actual equipment like specially F16 landed in Pakistan before any constraint is till American are stuck in Afghanistan, once they are gone, some XYZ senator resolution will be waiting to be imposed. We know Israel and india have good lobby there

 

[Blackbirdz!]

question is, why is this American equipment so necessary for Pakistan at all?

given they are sanctionable and have operational restrictions ie F16C/D cant do deep attacks inside indian territory.

While on the otherhand, J10C/D is already at technological level of F16V, without any restrictions and even can be brought with full ToT.

In the end, we have to see our benefit, specially the industrial benefit over mere operational and human comfort since our pilots can be trusted as Good ones to say the least,

its not the weapon, but the man behind the weapon who makes the difference.