JF-17 related news.

[Mingle]

Hi,

Paf was and is sold on the F16---. The design is basically an f16 with side intakes and a little smaller---.

Don't look at the aircraft parked on the tarmac---but look at the in fight profile from the top or the bottom---.

And if you listen to the comments--he states that as well.

The thing is that with the induction of the Rafale and the existing SU30's---india cannot expand it fleets very much---. The cost of operating 125 Rafales + the SU30's would be very high---.

Now Paf should have though about it in the 90's and early 2000's when they had the funds to get the much needed F16's or whatever else---and force india to the table for peace---.

What? MK you talking about 5th Gen of PAF???I am imagineing F16 with side intake

 

[Mingle]

Still makes me wonder why canrad- delta wing wasnt pursued(gripen-typhoon-rafale)

Regardless it has its limitations.PAF has to move fast with project AZM. It should try to get design help from china. The solution has to be ready 2030
As by 2030 india would have expanded its 4.5 gen fleet to a great extent

PAF should go it's own 5th Gen with option TFX as turkey coming big way at Kamra not only T625 also Atak 2 and T129 they building tech centre at Kamra as well i see TFX along Azm for our F16s replacement
As @Khafee said not all our current fleet will be V upgraded means we will see old lot to be replaced around 2030 with Azam or TFX Jett

 

[baqai]

What? MK you talking about 5th Gen of PAF???I am imagineing F16 with side intake

i think he is talking about JF

 

[Armchair]

I think DCS represents the closest open source modelling there is based on technical parameters. The JF-17 is somewhere between the F-18 and F-16 in its ITR and STR. In DCS, JF-17 STR rivals F-16s, and is just short of F-18 ITR.

In short, it's more balanced and better suited than F-16 design wise (I don't mean F-16s thrust advantage). Modern air combat is less and less likely to end up in post-merge dog fighting. Instead, BVR and then first pass WVR will rule the day, with HOBS missiles.

Because JF-17 has such an excellent combination of ITR and STR, this HOBS capability will be maximally utilized by it. Its also noticed in DCS by a lot of players that JF-17 cockpit is technologically superior and better arranged / planned than the F-16.

Where the JF-17 loses out is the superior thrust and load of the F-16.

Against the Rafale, the main threat from both is not fancy dogfights but rather long BVR engagements where Rafale may perhaps have the longer stick and have better EW (speculation). This would allow them to perhaps get the first shot and jam JF-17s / F-16s. It is not certain this will be the case, but the possibility exists.

PS: even in terms of dogfighting, the JF-17 is perhaps one of the best, and some would suggest the best dogfighter on DCS.

AESA radars, new EW and the PL-21 will surely help mitigate against these issues.

 

[Ziaulislam]

Hi,

Paf was and is sold on the F16---. The design is basically an f16 with side intakes and a little smaller---.

Don't look at the aircraft parked on the tarmac---but look at the in fight profile from the top or the bottom---.

And if you listen to the comments--he states that as well.

The thing is that with the induction of the Rafale and the existing SU30's---india cannot expand it fleets very much---. The cost of operating 125 Rafales + the SU30's would be very high---.

Now Paf should have though about it in the 90's and early 2000's when they had the funds to get the much needed F16's or whatever else---and force india to the table for peace---.

Forcing india to the table..was china able to with their vastly superior force? Not happening !

By 2025, India may have:
100 Rafales
270 MKI
130 other BVR capable platforms
80 Tejas

A total of 480 BVR capable platforms.

Pakistan will have:

200 JF-17s
75 F-16s
50 BVR capable Mirages

A total of 325 BVR capable platforms. Just my speculation.

Probably not that many tejas or rafale (orders not in yet)
May be half of those

Jf17 may hit 200 but my guess is 180ish with delay for block4
I suspect rd93ma will go to block-4 which will probably be the final refinement of jf17

 

[Mastankhan]

Forcing india to the table..was china able to with their vastly superior force? Not happening !

Probably not that many tejas or rafale (orders not in yet)
May be half of those

Jf17 may hit 200 but my guess is 180ish with delay for block4
I suspect rd93ma will go to block-4 which will probably be the final refinement of jf17

Hi,

Please read and understand what is being said---.

There is a big difference in " is " and " was ". Mid 2000's indian was not on war footing---peace deal was about to happen---.

Paf deceived Pakistan by assessing that the chance of war between india / pakistan has gone forever so no hurry in getting the F16's after 9/11---.

That assessment was conveyed to Gen Musharraf---.

 

[capricorn5192]

Hi,

Please read and understand what is being said---.

There is a big difference in " is " and " was ". Mid 2000's indian was not on war footing---peace deal was about to happen---.

Paf deceived Pakistan by assessing that the chance of war between india / pakistan has gone forever so no hurry in getting the F16's after 9/11---.

That assessment was conveyed to Gen Musharraf---.

Sir, do you think now PAF has moved on from the love of F-16s?

 

[Mastankhan]

Sir, do you think now PAF has moved on from the love of F-16s?

No---not at all---.

 

[HardTalk]

Sir, do you think now PAF has moved on from the love of F-16s?

We are waiting for the 70/72s my friend.. nobody has moved on

On topic, I must agree with MK that in the air, the JF17 is a completely different plane, looks wise - and does resemble the F16.

 

[baqai]

Sir, do you think now PAF has moved on from the love of F-16s?

F-16 is like bachpun ka pehla pyaar, no matter what you get in life aap pehla pyaar kabhi nahin bholtay

 

[capricorn5192]

F-16 is like bachpun ka pehla pyaar, no matter what you get in life aap pehla pyaar kabhi nahin bholtay

First love at the cost of national interest. Just saying, btw I don't doubt anyone's patriotism

 

[Ziaulislam]

First love at the cost of national interest. Just saying, btw I don't doubt anyone's patriotism

Show me a single western plateform with price tag that even come close to f16(~70m)
Aim 120c performance is infront of every one
And AESA fielded is backed by 20+ years of experience

China just fielded it first AESA while russians are yet to do do

 

[AliYusuf]

And AESA fielded is backed by 20+ years of experience

Yes but the Chinese beat the west in giving us AESA FCR.
That is the main issue.
We are more likely to get Chinese top tier gadgets than we are to get west's mid tier gadgets.

 

[Mingle]

Yes but the Chinese beat the west in giving us AESA FCR.
That is the main issue.
We are more likely to get Chinese top tier gadgets than we are to get west's mid tier gadgets.

I see no difference now between Chinese products and western products they are pretty much at par now.

 

[Ziaulislam]

I think DCS represents the closest open source modelling there is based on technical parameters. The JF-17 is somewhere between the F-18 and F-16 in its ITR and STR. In DCS, JF-17 STR rivals F-16s, and is just short of F-18 ITR.

In short, it's more balanced and better suited than F-16 design wise (I don't mean F-16s thrust advantage). Modern air combat is less and less likely to end up in post-merge dog fighting. Instead, BVR and then first pass WVR will rule the day, with HOBS missiles.

Because JF-17 has such an excellent combination of ITR and STR, this HOBS capability will be maximally utilized by it. Its also noticed in DCS by a lot of players that JF-17 cockpit is technologically superior and better arranged / planned than the F-16.

Where the JF-17 loses out is the superior thrust and load of the F-16.

Against the Rafale, the main threat from both is not fancy dogfights but rather long BVR engagements where Rafale may perhaps have the longer stick and have better EW (speculation). This would allow them to perhaps get the first shot and jam JF-17s / F-16s. It is not certain this will be the case, but the possibility exists.

PS: even in terms of dogfighting, the JF-17 is perhaps one of the best, and some would suggest the best dogfighter on DCS.

AESA radars, new EW and the PL-21 will surely help mitigate against these issues.

Rd 93ma will greatly soove the thrust issues
We dont know about all the senors but we saw a new MAWs as well. AESA might have side mounted array
The two other key issues will be IRST & HMD
But as of now these three key developments are not confirmed on block 3(engine-IRST-HMD)

We are all hoping for better sensor fusion & cockpit
We are also hoping for pl-15 & future ramjet missle??

Much is still not known about block 3. But bottle neck is engine thrust