Pakistan Gets F16 -Blk70/72

[Zarvan]

Excess Defence Article.

These figures are not confirmed. Still being negotiated. The numbers have changed, but I dont want to reveal them. I have been asked not to.

The numbers being discussed have increased or decreased ???

 

[Khafee]

The numbers being discussed have increased or decreased ???

No comment

Blk70 has been decide by the US, that if PAF wants any, it will be Blk70. IA not only will new Blk70's come in, but old ones will also be upgraded. How many, it is still too early to tell.

PLUS the thing with the F16's is that being an offensive platform, until they land in Pakistan, their delivery can be stopped anytime.

 

[Cookie Monster]

I understand u asked Khafee's opinion on this...
...I'm just going to list what I've gathered so far from lurking here and another forum. Of course it doesn't carry the weight that Khafee's response would...but I believe all objective discussion is good discussion...

@Khafee What reports you have of possible answer to Rafael. I am pretty sure JF-17 BLOCK III despite being really good machine is not the answer for Rafael neither PAF considers it to be one. So what other jets are being considered by Pakistan Air Force. I am hearing a lot about F-16 BLOCK 70/72 but I believe Pakistan should not trust USA. Still would love to here your thoughts and any information you have.

Regarding that part that Pak shouldn't go for F16s and not trust USA...
...well just like Zulus...these F16s will be subsidized and offer the quickest and cheapest counter to Indian Rafales.

PAF is already trained on F16s and has developed tactics over decades according to F16's flight characteristics. Moreover if US wanted to keep Pakistan from having these F16s...they would simply not give those to Pak. Yes they would exercise control...as they already do...and that's something that is not easy to get out of for as long as Pak relies on foreign stuff.

We have started receiving Viper attack helicopters and yes I also agree USA should not be trusted and in my opinion Eurofighter is better option.

EFT cannot be subsidized using CSF. It would have to be a purchase that Pak would have to pay full price for...and it would include the extra costs like training pilots, training maintenance crew, building up spares, developing new tactics, etc.

Besides the cost factor... technically US can still exercise control over it bcuz US has a lot of influence over UK and other western European countries. EFT contains parts from various different countries...and if US applied enough pressure...that could be a mess and Pak could end up in the same potential situation u r discussing here regarding the F16s.

If Pak gets a sizable number of F16 Block 70, coupled with JF17 Block III, and previous Block 52 F16s...that would be enough of a capability boost to keep IAF in check(Rafale included) for a good decade or more. These subsidized F16s are the biggest bang for the buck Pak can get to close the gap(with the IAF Rafale) and allow enough time(10-15 years) for Azm NGF to start taking shape.

@Khafee plz correct me if I'm wrong in this speculation...or add anything missing.

 

[Khafee]

I understand u asked Khafee's opinion on this...
...I'm just going to list what I've gathered so far from lurking here and another forum. Of course it doesn't carry the weight that Khafee's response would...but I believe all objective discussion is good discussion...

Regarding that part that Pak shouldn't go for F16s and not trust USA...
...well just like Zulus...these F16s will be subsidized and offer the quickest and cheapest counter to Indian Rafales.

PAF is already trained on F16s and has developed tactics over decades according to F16's flight characteristics. Moreover if US wanted to keep Pakistan from having these F16s...they would simply not give those to Pak. Yes they would exercise control...as they already do...and that's something that is not easy to get out of for as long as Pak relies on foreign stuff.

EFT cannot be subsidized using CSF. It would have to be a purchase that Pak would have to pay full price for...and it would include the extra costs like training pilots, training maintenance crew, building up spares, developing new tactics, etc.

Besides the cost factor... technically US can still exercise control over it bcuz US has a lot of influence over UK and other western European countries. EFT contains parts from various different countries...and if US applied enough pressure...that could be a mess and Pak could end up in the same potential situation u r discussing here regarding the F16s.

If Pak gets a sizable number of F16 Block 70, coupled with JF17 Block III, and previous Block 52 F16s...that would be enough of a capability boost to keep IAF in check(Rafale included) for a good decade or more. These subsidized F16s are the biggest bang for the buck Pak can get to close the gap(with the IAF Rafale) and allow enough time(10-15 years) for Azm NGF to start taking shape.

@Khafee plz correct me if I'm wrong in this speculation...or add anything missing.

No need to correct anything, very well said.

 

[Scorpio]

No comment

Blk70 has been decide by the US, that if PAF wants any, it will be Blk70. IA not only will new Blk70's come in, but old ones will also be upgraded. How many, it is still too early to tell.

PLUS the thing with the F16's is that being an offensive platform, until they land in Pakistan, their delivery can be stopped anytime.

@Khafee if Egyptians F16 somehow actually came in act (just supposing) will this effect number of direct American numbers specifically EDA in negotiations or both deals will remain independent ?

 

[Hawkeye]

Blk70 has been decide by the US, that if PAF wants any, it will be Blk70

Why particularly block 70. Why can't we get block 72.

We have started receiving Viper attack helicopters

Is this confirm?

 

[Khafee]

@Khafee if Egyptians F16 somehow actually came in act (just supposing) will this effect number of direct American numbers specifically EDA in negotiations or both deals will remain independent ?

No not at all. For the new Blk70's Alh permission is final. EDA, they are still not sure.

 

[Khafee]

Why particularly block 70. Why can't we get block 72.

Blk 70 is GE engine. Lockheed and DoD have an agreement with GE to supply all future engines for F16's.

GE Aviation Awarded $707 Million for F110 engine production

 

[Scorpio]

I understand u asked Khafee's opinion on this...
...I'm just going to list what I've gathered so far from lurking here and another forum. Of course it doesn't carry the weight that Khafee's response would...but I believe all objective discussion is good discussion...

Regarding that part that Pak shouldn't go for F16s and not trust USA...
...well just like Zulus...these F16s will be subsidized and offer the quickest and cheapest counter to Indian Rafales.

PAF is already trained on F16s and has developed tactics over decades according to F16's flight characteristics. Moreover if US wanted to keep Pakistan from having these F16s...they would simply not give those to Pak. Yes they would exercise control...as they already do...and that's something that is not easy to get out of for as long as Pak relies on foreign stuff.

EFT cannot be subsidized using CSF. It would have to be a purchase that Pak would have to pay full price for...and it would include the extra costs like training pilots, training maintenance crew, building up spares, developing new tactics, etc.

Besides the cost factor... technically US can still exercise control over it bcuz US has a lot of influence over UK and other western European countries. EFT contains parts from various different countries...and if US applied enough pressure...that could be a mess and Pak could end up in the same potential situation u r discussing here regarding the F16s.

If Pak gets a sizable number of F16 Block 70, coupled with JF17 Block III, and previous Block 52 F16s...that would be enough of a capability boost to keep IAF in check(Rafale included) for a good decade or more. These subsidized F16s are the biggest bang for the buck Pak can get to close the gap(with the IAF Rafale) and allow enough time(10-15 years) for Azm NGF to start taking shape.

@Khafee plz correct me if I'm wrong in this speculation...or add anything missing.

Solid point of view with relistic approach

Just will add my opnion, agree we should get as many F16 we can get ASAP before American change mind.

But additionally we can induct few chanines which are in process as J15
but i am in favour to induct few russian birds too like Mig 35 (which is 50 $ million apx) will lead us to Directly to Mig 41 (6th generation ) or any other

so if American agian try to corners us in future we will have option of alternatives plateform like our Thandars and J15 from China and few russian like Mig 35 too

 

[Khafee]

Solid point of view with relistic approach

Just will add my opnion, agree we should get as many F16 we can get ASAP before American change mind.
But additionally we can induct few chanines which are in process as F15 but i am in favour to induct few russian birds to like Mig 35 (which is 50 million apx) will lead us to Directly to Mig 41 (6th generation

so if American agian try to corners us we will have option of our Thandars and J15 from China and few russian like Mig 35 too

@Mastankhan said something very interesting, and absolutely bang on: " Once PAF gets a newer / better platform, more vipers will come, and once you have an alternate platform, embargoes are no good."

 

[space cadet]

this is a great read anytime

How To Win In A Dogfight: Stories From A Pilot Who Flew F-16s And MiGs

Lt. Col. Fred "Spanky" Clifton is one of the most experienced aggressor pilots ever, having flown the F-15, F-5, F-16 and the notorious MiG-29. He's been in dogfights with pretty much every fighter out there and is a graduate of the prestigious Fighter Weapons School. Now he's here to share his...

foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com

I've flown all the C/D versions – Blocks 25, 30, 32, 40, 42, 50, 52. The Pratt-powered Blocks 25, 32 and 42 are good performers, but not great. The GE-powered Blocks 30, 40 and 50, plus the Pratt-powered Block 52 are absolute beasts. The GE-powered fleet is flown by the active-duty F-16 squadrons while Air National Guard and Reserve squadrons operate a mixed bag of GE-powered and Pratt-powered Vipers. I've never flown a jet that will out accelerate the GE-powered F-16. At low altitude, GE Vipers will step out to its airspeed of 810 knots indicated airspeed like nobody's business. The limit is based on the polycarbonate canopy and not the engine. At higher speeds the canopy starts to get warm due to air friction. At some point the canopy will start to deform if the jet gets much faster. At high altitude, I've had the jet out to Mach 2.05. This limit is due to the fixed air inlet and opposed the F-15's variable geometry inlet.

 

[Scorpio]

No not at all. For the new Blk70's Alh permission is final. EDA, they are still not sure.

So if i am not wrong, Egyptians F16 can be backups plan for EDA ( if numbers remain low as per PAF expectations) ? @Khafee

 

[Khafee]

So if i am not wrong, Egyptians F16 can be backups plan for EDA ( if numbers remain low as per PAF expectations) ?

Yes, and at the same time, if both EAF & EDA comes in, then with a s/w upgrade EAF's can be active within days.

 

[Hawkeye]

So if i am not wrong, Egyptians F16 can be backups plan for EDA ( if numbers remain low as per PAF expectations) ?

What makes you think that Egypt will sell its F16s to Pakistan. This is not even a rumor

 

[Khafee]

this is a great read anytime

How To Win In A Dogfight: Stories From A Pilot Who Flew F-16s And MiGs

Lt. Col. Fred "Spanky" Clifton is one of the most experienced aggressor pilots ever, having flown the F-15, F-5, F-16 and the notorious MiG-29. He's been in dogfights with pretty much every fighter out there and is a graduate of the prestigious Fighter Weapons School. Now he's here to share his...

foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com

I've flown all the C/D versions – Blocks 25, 30, 32, 40, 42, 50, 52. The Pratt-powered Blocks 25, 32 and 42 are good performers, but not great. The GE-powered Blocks 30, 40 and 50, plus the Pratt-powered Block 52 are absolute beasts. The GE-powered fleet is flown by the active-duty F-16 squadrons while Air National Guard and Reserve squadrons operate a mixed bag of GE-powered and Pratt-powered Vipers. I've never flown a jet that will out accelerate the GE-powered F-16. At low altitude, GE Vipers will step out to its airspeed of 810 knots indicated airspeed like nobody's business. The limit is based on the polycarbonate canopy and not the engine. At higher speeds the canopy starts to get warm due to air friction. At some point the canopy will start to deform if the jet gets much faster. At high altitude, I've had the jet out to Mach 2.05. This limit is due to the fixed air inlet and opposed the F-15's variable geometry inlet.

There is a word for people like you in Punjabi - "Meesna"

All this time, you didn't utter one word, about being a viper driver. You need to tell us more about your experience with this beautiful machine.