Pakistan Gets F16 -Blk70/72

[PewPew]

Mastan shaib I can respond to you but then you might not like it, plz keep in mind Respect Is Mutual Responsibility never a unilateral obligation

plz don't act as divine intellect in you enthusiasm to show other as lesser than you, you have forget we were a Declared Nuclear Power at time and Indian air force had only MiG-21 as its main fighter while MiG--29 and Mirages were avaliable to IAF in limited number.

Contract for SU-30 MKI was signed by India only in 2000 and it was accepted in IAF only in 2002, yes at the time when we were enquiring about M2K and France was pitching Rafale to PAF at 3 time the price of Su-30MKI.

I would request to members to calculate the Present value of money of 150 million which were demanded in 2002-03 in terms of today's $ and post the actually amount here to EDUCATE the DIVINE INTELLECT about actual value of the Demand at that time by French for every single Rafale

Mastain Shaib don't take it personal but as a sincere observation you always omits perspective of the events and happenings which you quote either on purpose or due to age factor which is not good for Honest and Intellectual debate

Anyways. It's time to conduct ourselves less like India and more like China. Let's focus on our in-house efforts. I'd much rather speculate about Project Azm which is a seed in hand rather than imaginary fruits.

 

[Mastankhan]

I think THIS should be taught in schools.

Hi,

Long long time ago---I read that to purchase a major weapons system---you have to think 10-15 years ahead of time---.

You will take 2-3 years to assess and analyze it and place the order---it will take another 2 to 5 years to get them all in place and it will take 5 to 10 years to integrate it into your system---.

 

[Khafee]

Anyways. It's time to conduct ourselves less like India and more like China. Let's focus on our in-house efforts. I'd much rather speculate about Project Azm which is a seed in hand rather than imaginary fruits.

You know, I cant help but wonder IF PAF had the rafale what would be the outcome. In any case, WE want Project Azm, but what does the PAF want?

 

[AliYusuf]

You know, I cant help but wonder IF PAF had the rafale what would be the outcome. In any case, WE want Project Azm, but what does the PAF want?

Some of the big brass in the past worked their way to a good retirement plan.

 

[Mastankhan]

You know, I cant help but wonder IF PAF had the rafale what would be the outcome. In any case, WE want Project Azm, but what does the PAF want?

Hi,

The outcome would have been simple---" a peace deal signed and sealed "---.

And if war came---we would be ahead of the curve---.

See Rafale was one factor---. Getting more BLK52's in a timely manner was another---.

@Khafee---but why were we looking at the Rafale or the Grippen---why did we not focus on the BLK52's and get them right away---. Why did we get distracted---.

The air force that gave away 6 air bases to the US---could not get more BLK52's in the next 2 years after 9/11---that cannot be comprehended.

See that is THE DARK PART of the CIRCLE---. Why---an air force that till yesterday could not fly its 36 F16 aircraft---did not rush in to buy more F16's the next day when you became allies against war on terror---.

I am searching to find the TRUTH about that part---and nothing is coming out---I want to find out " WHAT TRANSPIRED that made the Paf from making the purchase---.

 

[Khafee]

Some of the big brass in the past worked their way to a good retirement plan.

Long ago I was on a course in Denver, one for boots to understand how CAS works, and how to fine tune it. There I was introduced to an ex-PAF one star, ex-F16 pilot, and he had also served with UAEAF and flew M5's with us. He had a nice tidy pkg, and by his own words lived in a US$2m house. You can imagine my shock and disappointment.

 

[HRK]

At that time---the indian govt was weak---it was looking for ways to make peace---it was looking for EXCUSES to make peace

Outing over a million troops at border in 2002 was a posture of Peace ....?

And sign of weak Government ... ?

How conveniently people have ignored that BJP was in power at that time as well ??

What was the big deal if we had to spend 5 billion dollars extra for a higher price weapon---we would have a signed and enforced peace deal 14 years ago---.

At time when we only had 1.6 billion $ in reserve with SBP, ~$30 billion as foreign debts and only +60 billion $ of GDP, again conviently ignoring the background of that era

Young kids keep talking about weapons---but they act clueless and don't even bother to learn what a timely purchase does for the nation---.

Sir this young kid know the perspective of timely development of major weapon system too well ... Its the other side who need to remember about the history and relevant perspective of major weapon system "DEVELOPMENT" in Pakistan

 

[Mastankhan]

Outing over a million troops at border in 2002 was a posture of Peace ....?
And sign of weak Government ... ?

" Sir this young kid know the perspective of timely development of major weapon system too well "---
How conveniently people have ignored that BJP was in power at that time as well ??

Hi,

That 2002 posturing was a drama by the indians---created to stop the sales of the equipment to us and malign the world against us---we failed in countering it properly---just like we did about the mumbai incidence or the OBL incidence---.

India pretty much won all the rounds---.

About kids---the proof is in the pudding---it does not show that they have any clue---. There is no urgency---what if there is FAILURE there is NO SHOW OF FEAR ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES---.

And as long as there is no show of fear of consequences---nothing is taken seriously---no one prepares properly for that moment and that is the universal truth---.

Indians show fear of what if---that is why they keep fighting to get more and more---they know their short comings---as Gen Bakhshi in his interview posted on youtube stated---" you the pakistanis and the chinese showed us how to fight"---.

As much as we let the indians down of their incompetence and lack luster performance---it has not stopped them from trying to get better and better and better---why---it is that fear of the muslims that they have---and they keep harping on it and keep preparing for it with every breath that they have and one day they will actually get there---.

And we pakistanis---we shoot two of their aircraft---let 6 escape---let their billion dollar submarine escape---gave away all our electronic secrets---what we did---how we did it---and who did it---just so that that the DG ISPR could look good on the TV---.

 

[Khafee]

Outing over a million troops at border in 2002 was a posture of Peace ....?

And sign of weak Government ... ?

How conveniently people have ignored that BJP was in power at that time as well ??


At time when we only had 1.6 billion $ in reserve with SBP, ~$30 billion as foreign debts and only +60 billion $ of GDP, again conviently ignoring the background of that era

Sir this young kid know the perspective of timely development of major weapon system too well ... Its the other side who need to remember about the history and relevant perspective of major weapon system "DEVELOPMENT" I'm Pakistan

Khan Saheb, Can we take your tone down a notch? Just a humble request.

Secondly, irrespective of the reserves, Pakistan has never been short of funds for defence purchases. They could take loans at favourable terms from the GCC or China as well.

I always felt it was treason on part of the govts to squeeze funds for the Armed Forces so they could loot and plunder more.

 

[Khafee]

Hi,

That 2002 posturing was a drama by the indians---created to stop the sales of the equipment to us and malign the world against us---we failed in countering it properly---just like we did about the mumbai incidence or the OBL incidence---.

India pretty much won all the rounds---.

I think in 2002 they just looked like fools, when their huffing and puffing cost them nearly 2,000 lives.

India suffered 1,874 casualties without fighting a war

 

[Mastankhan]

I think in 2002 they just looked like fools, when their huffing and puffing cost them nearly 2,000 lives.

India suffered 1,874 casualties without fighting a war

Hi,

The indians achieved their goals what they set in 2002---. Casualties don't mean anything to them---.

That was the start of a stair step progression of maligning the world's image against pakistan---and they continued with it 110% and have not stopped---.

The BJP of that 2002 was not the BJP of Mr. Modi---. It was a different party---.

US came back to the lap of pakistan after 9/11---pakistani military consortium became arrogant---basic simple tactics & strategies were overlooked---till OBL scene happened and we see a massive failure in how to counter---and it was just because of ONE WRONG person in position of power---Gen Kiyani,

 

[HRK]

What difference would it have made if Rafale was 3 times the price-

We paid from the development budget of Army for only 18 F-16 blk-52+ for 10 consecutive years, now you might know the reason
- Why we didn't buy MARP in numbers,
- Why AK numbers are so low,
- Why we have not converted all of our towed artillery to standard 155mm,
- Why we still have no modern Gunship helicopters
- Why our wheeled artillery program is in suspension
- And so on

These were the side effects of just 18 F-16 blk 52+ which I think cost us only $90 million each

Now could you imaging what would have happened if we had signed $5-6 billion deal with France, we might not have JF-17, might not have our missile programs, might not have modernize fleet of F-16, and no AZM project and above all would be facing difficulty to keep the Rafale fleet operational if we had signed the deal at that time

 

[Mastankhan]

We paid from the development budget of Army for only 18 F-16 blk-52+ for 10 consecutive years, now you might know the reason
- Why we didn't bought MARP in numbers,
- Why AK numbers are so low,
- Why we have not converted all of our towed artillery to standard 155mm,
- Why we still have no modern Gunship helicopters
- Why our wheeled artillery program is in suspension
- And so on

These were the side effects of just 18 F-16 blk 52+ which I think cost us only $90 million each

Now could you imaging what would have happened if we had signed $5-6 billion deal with France, we might not have JF-17, might not have our missile programs, might not have modernize fleet of F-16, and no AZM project and above all would be facing difficulty to keep the Rafale fleet operational if we had signed the deal at that time

Paf donated 5 billion dollars to the EQ fund---.

 

[HRK]

Paf donated 5 billion dollars to the EQ fund---.

NO not a single penny

 

[Mingle]

Plz stick with topic living in Past won't solve the problem let's hope this time things go good. @Khafee any update brother??