Pakistan Gets F16 -Blk70/72

[TomCat]

. Further upgrades currently planned for the J-11D, include radar absorbent coatings, an AESA radar, and the ability to deploy PL-15 ramjet powered air-to-air missiles, which retain a considerable advantage in range over their U.S. analogue, the AIM-120C. These technologies have all been integrated on the lighter J-10 fighter airframe, leading to the elite J-10C’s entry into service in April 2018.

This my friend, is the reason why J-10C is a beast, one of it’s kind, Block 60 ki takkar hai

 

[TomCat]

I wonder whether block 3 would incorporate PL-15 ramjet? Or block 2 can?

 

[Caprxl]

They're not the same.

India gets attacked by PAF jets and pilots. The only tricky part is that they launched from a Chinese Carrier.
When the Chinese Carrier gets attacked, China is attacked, regardless of the payload it carriers.

So however absurd it may seem , @Mastankhan idea is Intriguing

 

[Counter-Errorist]

I wonder whether block 3 would incorporate PL-15 ramjet? Or block 2 can?

Reports: Pakistan’s JF-17 Fighters to Deploy Chinese PL-15 ; New Missiles Could Even the Odds Against the Elite of India’s Air Force

 

[AliYusuf]

From what I have gleaned from online forums and articles on J-15, after @Khafee Sahib broke the news, it is apparent that J-15 when not encumbered with carrier based operation offers excellent field performance, even surpassing the J-16. If equipped with the same AESA radar as the J-16, it would provide a very good land based Air Superiority + Deep Naval / Overland Strike capability that would be second to none in the Flanker community. The issues of the WS-10A engines, that have been plaguing it have been also been resolved. The WS-10B, which equips the J-16, can also be used instead of the WS-10A.

My own assumption would be that the PAF would go for a 2-seat multi-role version of the fighter. 16 of which could be the 2-seat modification of the upgraded J-15B and 8 of which could be the J-15D growler version.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[TomCat]

From what I have gleaned from online forums and articles on J-15, after @Khafee Sahib broke the news, it is apparent that J-15 when not encumbered with carrier based operation offers excellent field performance, even surpassing the J-16. If equipped with the same AESA radar as the J-16, it would provide a very good land based Air Superiority + Deep Naval / Overland Strike capability that would be second to none in the Flanker community. The issues of the WS-10A engines, that have been plaguing it have been also been resolved. The WS-10B, which equips the J-16, can also be used instead of the WS-10A.

My own assumption would be that the PAF would go for a 2-seat multi-role version of the fighter. 16 of which could be the 2-seat modification of the upgraded J-15B and 8 of which could be the J-15D growler version.

Just my 2 cents.

Could you enlighten me how a 'Land configured' J-15 would be better than J-16? In terms of payload, range, RCS, ECM/EW and armaments. I really have very less idea on chinese flankers. They just keep on going further & further so hard to keep on

 

[AliYusuf]

Could you enlighten me how a 'Land configured' J-15 would be better than J-16? In terms of payload, range, RCS, ECM/EW and armaments. I really have very less idea on chinese flankers. They just keep on going further & further so hard to keep on

The RCS issue is murky. However it's got a very good acceleration, It's low level slow speed performance performance is very good. Got a better top speed. When relieved of the Carrier based equipment ... it's empty weight also decreases and it's unencumbered performance improves. Hence that is exactly what I posted ... "it's field performance will improve". When we find what suite of avionics, radar, EW and armaments are coming with the package then that can be answered with a level of certainty. But if the radar is same as that of the J-16 (like I posted) half the game is won anyways. The rest becomes subject to what we pick and chose and what comes within the budget.

 

[Khafee]

Yaap some even claim RCS value uto 15m²

I think a bit of exaggerarion is going on here, when 15m² is quoted. Even for the first ones that flew.

Nonetheless, J16, J31, and J20 tech will definetly find its way into the PAF version of J15. I personally believe, it will have very little in common with the J15 in service today.

 

[TomCat]

I think a bit of exaggerarion is going on here, when 15m² is quoted. Even for the first ones that flew.

Nonetheless, J16, J31, and J20 tech will definetly find its way into the PAF version of J15. I personally believe, it will have very little in common with the J15 in service today.

Do you see any future of J-31 in PAF? i am talking about pure speculations NOT some insider news you might know. Is J-31 really a big program and will that achieve great success? PLAAF seems to be interested in it now. V2 was a pure beauty. When can we see J-31 in serial productions for China? I was really hoping to hear something about J-31 when you mentioned J-XX earlier but then got disappointed but then got happy knowing that J-15 packs quite a punch and that introducing J-31 might further push our neighbour to seek 5th gen in numbers. J-31 could have replaced Mirage's role as well as maritime roles along with a pack comprising of Block 3s with AShMs

 

[Khafee]

Do you see any future of J-31 in PAF? i am talking about pure speculations NOT some insider news you might know. Is J-31 really a big program and will that achieve great success? PLAAF seems to be interested in it now. V2 was a pure beauty. When can we see J-31 in serial productions for China? I was really hoping to hear something about J-31 when you mentioned J-XX earlier but then got disappointed but then got happy knowing that J-15 packs quite a punch and that introducing J-31 might further push our neighbour to seek 5th gen in numbers. J-31 could have replaced Mirage's role as well as maritime roles along with a pack comprising of Block 3s with AShMs

Not at all. MAYBE and that is a big maybe, J20 before AZM.

 

[AliYusuf]

A number of recent reports from predominantly Western sources have indicted that China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Navy has been frustrated with the performance of its J-15 Flying Shark carrier based air superiority fighter, and has sought to retire the platform in the near future in favour of a more reliable and lighter aircraft. An analysis of the J-15 program however to the contrary indicates a highly successful fighter program, and one which the PLA continues to invest heavily in and have high hopes for in the future. Having entered service in 2013, the Flying Shark was developed by the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation based on the airframe of the Su-27 Flanker, one which the PLA has a great deal of experience operating. China’s armed forces are the largest operators of Flanker based fighter airframes in the world, and technologies from a number of platforms including the J-11B, Su-30 and prototypes of the Soviet Su-33 acquired from Ukraine were all integrated onto the J-15 to produce a cutting edge carrier based platform.

The J-15 boasts an impressive range, maximum altitude and and thrust/weight ratio, inherited from the advanced Flanker airframe, and has a 10% superior thrust/weight ratio and a 25% lower wing loading than the U.S. Navy’s elite F-18E Super Hornet carrier based fighter. With the U.S. Navy having retried its F-14 Tomcat without a suitable replacement, and Russia set to imminently retire its Su-33, the J-15 will have a considerably higher operational altitude than any other carrier based fighter in the world - and will be the only carrier based fighter in service using a heavy air superiority air frame.

While the Flying Shark has been in a number of accidents, with three fighters lost so far, and this has commonly been cited by Western reports as the cause of the aircraft's apparent failure, such losses are in fact hardly unusual for a new fighter - particularly a carrier based platform. Of the 712 American F-14 Tomcat carrier based fighters built, over 160 were destroyed in accidents - this being despite the U.S. having considerably more experience in operating carrier based fighters than China - which had none before 2013. While China’s J-15 has suffered three losses to accidents in its first five years, America’s F-14 suffered almost 40 in its first half decade in service. The F-14 was nevertheless considered one of the most successful carrier based fighters in U.S. history.

Not only is the J-15 relatively reliable, but the design has only been operating at a fraction of its true potential and is set to become an increasingly formidable asset with time. Carrier based Flanker air frames were initially intended by the Soviet Navy to operate from its Ulyanovsk Class super carriers which could better accommodate their large air frames and could use catapult launch systems to deploy the fighters with a full payload. Only after the cancellation of the program with the USSR’s disintegration were Flankers pressed into service on smaller Kuznetsov Class carrier decks - the Russian Admiral Kuznetsov and the Chinese Liaoning and Type 001. While the PLA Navy has adapted the Flanker air frame well to operate from its existing carriers, the J-15 will excel considerably should it be deployed from heavier warships with advanced catapult systems such as the upcoming Type 002 and Type 003 warships. These would allow the fighters to make full use of their long range and high payloads, and would provide the PLA Navy with maritime air superiority capabilities qualitatively unmatched by any rival.

Other than new carriers, considerable investments have been made in upgrading the J-15 air frame itself to better provide for the PLA’s defence needs. One notable sign of the PLA’s continued faith in the air frame is the development of the J-15D/J-17 electronic attack jet based on the Flying Shark’s air frame, prototypes of which were first sighted in 2018, which will give Chinese carrier strike groups the world’s only equivalent to the U.S. E/A-18G Growler attack jet - albeit a faster, longer ranged and higher flying one. A number of reports have also indicated that future J-15 fighters, including those under development for the Type 001 carrier, will integrate a number of next generation technologies developed since the aircraft’s first induction in 2013. The PLA Air Force has notably extensively applied next generation technologies, including stealth coatings, three dimensional thrust vectoring and AESA radars to its J-11D air superiority fighters - a platform also based on the Flanker air superiority air frame set to enter service in 2018. This demonstrates the military’s continued faith in the viability of upgraded Flanker airframes in the coming decades, and new J-15 jets are highly likely to integrate similar technologies. Deploying the latest air to air missiles such as the PL-15 and PL-12D, the aircraft will be comparable and likely in many ways superior to the Russian Su-35 Flanker, and the J-15 Flying Shark will surpass all rival carrier based fighters by a considerable margin in its air superiority capabilities. Ultimately the J-15 is unlikely to see retirement in the coming decades - and it is set not only to remain viable but to become increasingly exceptional as it evolves into a more capable carrier based fighter.

 

[!eon]

Hi

Paf can have a joint operational aircraft carrier in the arabian seas with the chinese.

That's doable thing but we have no one in civil or military to negotiate that kind of complicated stuff.
Civilian leadership thinks defense is alien stuff for them and military officials are over confident of their all round abilities.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

@Signalian looks like Our Thought @Khafee has decided to transform PakArmedForces for good! And now he is just squeezing the nimbu by tormenting the Paks... Zalim!

Personally, as beknown to you both, for myself all these birds or boats are PolicyInstruements providing PakState with Options to save OurFreedom and to an extent remain strategically relevant on the GrandChessboard.

We need to, however, see/develop broader perspective first and far most.

We have been at war, imposed upon us by two super powers, for last 40+ years.

We HAD to fight these wars for Our Survival which KhooniLiberals fail to see or don't have the mental capacity to understand.

Regardless, we have been at war and now another BigOne is looking us in the eye and we are doing all we can to prepare for Our Survival.

I do understand that it is an easy route to make FalseBrovados... but such things won't help us. We, obviously , are NOT fighting GanguTerroristArmy alone. Similarly, we are also NOT alone. Good things to those who wait.

So, we Fight for Our Survival with men, machines and means we have.

It is, once again, important to not limit ourselves to what SBP is lamenting about. Our Means are not confined to SBP. Rest you both know all too well.

Combined with the CriminalEnterprise's total plunder and devastation of CivilianInstituitions, superimposed by EconomicTerrorism as extension/component of Hybridwar on Pakistan... the War of Terror has not only bled us but has also caused us more than $220Bln in economic loss, unimaginable NationalTrauma, human suffering and paralysis of governance as well.

But when we see clearly this suffering of ours had provided China with much needed StrategicSpace to develop and prosper. USSR gone. Mortal Threat to China with it.

USA kept sinking deeper and deeper in the QuickSands of Arabia and HotGlue of Afghanistan.... loss of life and treasure and sitting at the table with Talibans. China remained safe!

Now when we visit the Geo-Economic/Geo-Strategic Theatre once again what do we see?

- Turkey forced into the trap of Syria... TurkishPride might get the better of them. DoubleEdgeSword

- Yemen becoming more lethal to the Arabian Heartland

- Persian-Arab tussle could become ugly for both with a minor miscalculation from either side

- Russia under sanctions more relevant than without them

- AsiaPivot is so far halfhearted at best... as the 'allies' the US is counting on are well... dependent on the ChineseEconomy

- GlobalRecession is around the corner

- Sino-US TradeWar edging towards closure

- Much touted Indian economy turning into Gangunomics and a massive slow down is barely hidden... unless massive public sector barrowing and spending.

- BRI becoming the Key to spur GlobalGrowth .... all major industries get to benefit... mostly Chinese.

- Kashmir is CapStone that holds the wobbly IndianUnion together. Assam is where Freedom is.

Now more important thing in all of this is Our Survival and how to Thrive from the all of the above. In fact, we can!

The number 2, after President Xi, in the ChineseMilitary came to visit PakLeadership... had intensive discussion of PakNeeds, outlining JointStrategy... and a rather vague press release after that visit.

Then all of PakLeadership, sans our dentist President, were in China to sign on that JointStrategicFramework. President Xi in Tamilland on his own request!

CPEC 2.0 is now a FACT. SEZs soon will be buzzing. OurMeans!

Please, do notice that China will do everything to break the MiddleIncomeTrap and country of 1.4Bln above middle income... imagine where PakEconomy can go!

Sinofication of PakEconomy was visible when PMIK talked about HongKong protests in his KashmirFreedom speech... calling it China's internal matter and calling out WesternMedia/ IntlMarasiMedia Hypocracy on the two issues.

Now when looked through this prism we might see the WhiteLight splitting into BlackLight and Red-Green Hue glowing.

PMIK was given briefings by PAF in PAF HQ. PAF Chief met with SMQ... @Khafee is informing of Fruititions ... frankly, all pieces on the CounterGrandChessboard

Sino-Pak cooperation is in Cyber, Space, Land, Sea, Air and Artificial Intelligence. Most of the upgrades won't be announced, as they should not be!

J-xx and JF B3+AZM and of course, the weapons... need to be seen in this perspective.

Quite honestly PNS is going to be BiggerSurprise.. about time too.

AfroPakOceanRegion is of particular concern to both China and Pakistan and we wish to see it Safe and Free. CPEC2.0 Calling. @I.R.A

Therefore, the J-xx is just once component of the PolicyInstruement that we shall see emerge.

As I said... USSR bit the dust and provided China with FirstStrategicRelief ... Iraq+AfghanWar provided China with SecondStrategicRelief... and all those artificial islands kept popping up like pakoras in hot mustard oil. To liberate EastChinaSea build in SouthChinaSea

Momentum of History on the forced march and Pakistan remains The Heartland.

If I be forward I rather wish that we learn fishing from China... from Statecraft to education to industrialisation to diplomacy to planning/execution of infrastructure.​

So Zalim Khafee is going to torment us forever




P.S. What could possibly be the ThirdStrategicRelief? @Shazam

 

[TomCat]

@Signalian looks like Our Thought @Khafee has decided to transform PakArmedForces for good! And now he is just squeezing the nimbu by tormenting the Paks... Zalim!

Personally, as beknown to you both, for myself all these birds or boats are PolicyInstruements providing PakState with Options to save OurFreedom and to an extent remain strategically relevant on the GrandChessboard.

We need to, however, see/develop broader perspective first and far most.

We have been at war, imposed upon us by two super powers, for last 40+ years.

We HAD to fight these wars for Our Survival which KhooniLiberals fail to see or don't have the mental capacity to understand.

Regardless, we have been at war and now another BigOne is looking us in the eye and we are doing all we can to prepare for Our Survival.

I do understand that it is an easy route to make FalseBrovados... but such things won't help us. We, obviously , are NOT fighting GanguTerroristArmy alone. Similarly, we are also NOT alone. Good things to those who wait.

So, we Fight for Our Survival with men, machines and means we have.

It is, once again, important to not limit ourselves to what SBP is lamenting about. Our Means are not confined to SBP. Rest you both know all too well.

Combined with the CriminalEnterprise's total plunder and devastation of CivilianInstituitions, superimposed by EconomicTerrorism as extension/component of Hybridwar on Pakistan... the War of Terror has not only bled us but has also caused us more than $220Bln in economic loss, unimaginable NationalTrauma, human suffering and paralysis of governance as well.

But when we see clearly this suffering of ours had provided China with much needed StrategicSpace to develop and prosper. USSR gone. Mortal Threat to China with it.

USA kept sinking deeper and deeper in the QuickSands of Arabia and HotGlue of Afghanistan.... loss of life and treasure and sitting at the table with Talibans. China remained safe!

Now when we visit the Geo-Economic/Geo-Strategic Theatre once again what do we see?

- Turkey forced into the trap of Syria... TurkishPride might get the better of them. DoubleEdgeSword

- Yemen becoming more lethal to the Arabian Heartland

- Persian-Arab tussle could become ugly for both with a minor miscalculation from either side

- Russia under sanctions more relevant than without them

- AsiaPivot is so far halfhearted at best... as the 'allies' the US is counting on are well... dependent on the ChineseEconomy

- GlobalRecession is around the corner

- Sino-US TradeWar edging towards closure

- Much touted Indian economy turning into Gangunomics and a massive slow down is barely hidden... unless massive public sector barrowing and spending.

- BRI becoming the Key to spur GlobalGrowth .... all major industries get to benefit... mostly Chinese.

- Kashmir is CapStone that holds the wobbly IndianUnion together. Assam is where Freedom is.

Now more important thing in all of this is Our Survival and how to Thrive from the all of the above. In fact, we can!

The number 2, after President Xi, in the ChineseMilitary came to visit PakLeadership... had intensive discussion of PakNeeds, outlining JointStrategy... and a rather vague press release after that visit.

Then all of PakLeadership, sans our dentist President, were in China to sign on that JointStrategicFramework. President Xi in Tamilland on his own request!

CPEC 2.0 is now a FACT. SEZs soon will be buzzing. OurMeans!

Please, do notice that China will do everything to break the MiddleIncomeTrap and country of 1.4Bln above middle income... imagine where PakEconomy can go!

Sinofication of PakEconomy was visible when PMIK talked about HongKong protests in his KashmirFreedom speech... calling it China's internal matter and calling out WesternMedia/ IntlMarasiMedia Hypocracy on the two issues.

Now when looked through this prism we might see the WhiteLight splitting into BlackLight and Red-Green Hue glowing.

PMIK was given briefings by PAF in PAF HQ. PAF Chief met with SMQ... @Khafee is informing of Fruititions ... frankly, all pieces on the CounterGrandChessboard

Sino-Pak cooperation is in Cyber, Space, Land, Sea, Air and Artificial Intelligence. Most of the upgrades won't be announced, as they should not be!

J-xx and JF B3+AZM and of course, the weapons... need to be seen in this perspective.

Quite honestly PNS is going to be BiggerSurprise.. about time too.

AfroPakOceanRegion is of particular concern to both China and Pakistan and we wish to see it Safe and Free. CPEC2.0 Calling.

Therefore, the J-xx is just once component of the PolicyInstruement that we shall see emerge.

As I said... USSR bit the dust and provided China with FirstStrategicRelief ... Iraq+AfghanWar provided China with SecondStrategicRelief... and all those artificial islands kept popping up like pakoras in hot mustard oil. To liberate EastChinaSea build in SouthChinaSea

Momentum of History on the forced march and Pakistan remains The Heartland.

If I be forward I rather wish that we learn fishing from China... from Statecraft to education to industrialisation to diplomacy to planning/execution of infrastructure.​

So Zalim Khaffee is going to torment us forever




P.S. What could possibly be the ThirdStrategicRelief?

Saray paisay hi apka post parhne ke hain bhai is forum pe. That's just out of the world, beautifully designed, with all the phrases used

 

[TomCat]

@Signalian looks like Our Thought @Khafee has decided to transform PakArmedForces for good! And now he is just squeezing the nimbu by tormenting the Paks... Zalim!

Personally, as beknown to you both, for myself all these birds or boats are PolicyInstruements providing PakState with Options to save OurFreedom and to an extent remain strategically relevant on the GrandChessboard.

We need to, however, see/develop broader perspective first and far most.

We have been at war, imposed upon us by two super powers, for last 40+ years.

We HAD to fight these wars for Our Survival which KhooniLiberals fail to see or don't have the mental capacity to understand.

Regardless, we have been at war and now another BigOne is looking us in the eye and we are doing all we can to prepare for Our Survival.

I do understand that it is an easy route to make FalseBrovados... but such things won't help us. We, obviously , are NOT fighting GanguTerroristArmy alone. Similarly, we are also NOT alone. Good things to those who wait.

So, we Fight for Our Survival with men, machines and means we have.

It is, once again, important to not limit ourselves to what SBP is lamenting about. Our Means are not confined to SBP. Rest you both know all too well.

Combined with the CriminalEnterprise's total plunder and devastation of CivilianInstituitions, superimposed by EconomicTerrorism as extension/component of Hybridwar on Pakistan... the War of Terror has not only bled us but has also caused us more than $220Bln in economic loss, unimaginable NationalTrauma, human suffering and paralysis of governance as well.

But when we see clearly this suffering of ours had provided China with much needed StrategicSpace to develop and prosper. USSR gone. Mortal Threat to China with it.

USA kept sinking deeper and deeper in the QuickSands of Arabia and HotGlue of Afghanistan.... loss of life and treasure and sitting at the table with Talibans. China remained safe!

Now when we visit the Geo-Economic/Geo-Strategic Theatre once again what do we see?

- Turkey forced into the trap of Syria... TurkishPride might get the better of them. DoubleEdgeSword

- Yemen becoming more lethal to the Arabian Heartland

- Persian-Arab tussle could become ugly for both with a minor miscalculation from either side

- Russia under sanctions more relevant than without them

- AsiaPivot is so far halfhearted at best... as the 'allies' the US is counting on are well... dependent on the ChineseEconomy

- GlobalRecession is around the corner

- Sino-US TradeWar edging towards closure

- Much touted Indian economy turning into Gangunomics and a massive slow down is barely hidden... unless massive public sector barrowing and spending.

- BRI becoming the Key to spur GlobalGrowth .... all major industries get to benefit... mostly Chinese.

- Kashmir is CapStone that holds the wobbly IndianUnion together. Assam is where Freedom is.

Now more important thing in all of this is Our Survival and how to Thrive from the all of the above. In fact, we can!

The number 2, after President Xi, in the ChineseMilitary came to visit PakLeadership... had intensive discussion of PakNeeds, outlining JointStrategy... and a rather vague press release after that visit.

Then all of PakLeadership, sans our dentist President, were in China to sign on that JointStrategicFramework. President Xi in Tamilland on his own request!

CPEC 2.0 is now a FACT. SEZs soon will be buzzing. OurMeans!

Please, do notice that China will do everything to break the MiddleIncomeTrap and country of 1.4Bln above middle income... imagine where PakEconomy can go!

Sinofication of PakEconomy was visible when PMIK talked about HongKong protests in his KashmirFreedom speech... calling it China's internal matter and calling out WesternMedia/ IntlMarasiMedia Hypocracy on the two issues.

Now when looked through this prism we might see the WhiteLight splitting into BlackLight and Red-Green Hue glowing.

PMIK was given briefings by PAF in PAF HQ. PAF Chief met with SMQ... @Khafee is informing of Fruititions ... frankly, all pieces on the CounterGrandChessboard

Sino-Pak cooperation is in Cyber, Space, Land, Sea, Air and Artificial Intelligence. Most of the upgrades won't be announced, as they should not be!

J-xx and JF B3+AZM and of course, the weapons... need to be seen in this perspective.

Quite honestly PNS is going to be BiggerSurprise.. about time too.

AfroPakOceanRegion is of particular concern to both China and Pakistan and we wish to see it Safe and Free. CPEC2.0 Calling.

Therefore, the J-xx is just once component of the PolicyInstruement that we shall see emerge.

As I said... USSR bit the dust and provided China with FirstStrategicRelief ... Iraq+AfghanWar provided China with SecondStrategicRelief... and all those artificial islands kept popping up like pakoras in hot mustard oil. To liberate EastChinaSea build in SouthChinaSea

Momentum of History on the forced march and Pakistan remains The Heartland.

If I be forward I rather wish that we learn fishing from China... from Statecraft to education to industrialisation to diplomacy to planning/execution of infrastructure.​

So Zalim Khaffee is going to torment us forever




P.S. What could possibly be the ThirdStrategicRelief?

Sir, what is the meaning of Boomers? Have seen the word quite a few times across