Pakistan Gets F16 -Blk70/72

[Khafee]

How is Turkey going to operate Leopard tanks in Syria without spare parts?

@Khafee @Signalian @Cookie Monster @Mangus Ortus Novem @Philip the Arab @AliYusuf @Caprxl Since the failed coup attempt, Turkey or more specifically Erdogan has been playing aggresively with it's former / Ex-to be Allies such as US, EU. Do you people consider this act of sovereignty & honour protection by Turkey a wise or foolish act? Turkey has a very important strategic location and is considered a bridge between east and west (East and west here implying the Soviet-China-Pak-CA WHILE west implying NATO). Could they have played better in different areas to at least still have vast access to western tech since now Turkey is not trusted much in that regard. I have a feeling that Turkey is right and wrong, latter being more?

Please post in the relevant thread:

Erdogan says Turkey to launch 'air and ground' operation in Syria

Erdogan says Turkey to launch 'air and ground' operation in Syria President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has said Turkeywill carry out an "air and ground military operation" east of the Euphrates River, prompting US-backed Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) to warn of an "all-out war" to defend the region...

world-defense.com

 

[TomCat]

Please post in the relevant thread:

Erdogan says Turkey to launch 'air and ground' operation in Syria

Erdogan says Turkey to launch 'air and ground' operation in Syria President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has said Turkeywill carry out an "air and ground military operation" east of the Euphrates River, prompting US-backed Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) to warn of an "all-out war" to defend the region...

world-defense.com

Pardon, posted

 

[Mingle]

The issue of "finance" still exists.

@Khafee with J15 along new and old Vipers we don't need any EF thing I am surprised that these j15 planes are not cheap very expensive

 

[Caprxl]

Interesting development... I don't believe Pakistan will pursue this path anymore of EF (?) Fact being, Sanction Prone avionics/engine, Another F-16 like dilemma, If Turkey fails to get EF for itself due to sanction, and we get a chance to get back on table and eventually get them, Turkey would be upset on us (?) (Mauka dekh kar apna ullo seedha kardia? Most probably a NO ) Could be not as well as it would have large options to choose from Russia/China. What's your take on it @Khafee

1) Well we were looking at them in the first place until Turkey came along because of
F-35 saga as informed by Khafee
2) In such deals i think ( Mauka and ullo ) might not be a thing to worry as we would be not behaving like Indians & caused this rather opportunity arose itself.
3) "Sanctions Prone" dilemma is always there , but it doesn't mean we don't get what we need.
4) Concluding my argument, I think the main reason in the past & prest is COST , but If we were looking for them and "Financial terms would have been in our favour" ,
Maybe..., just Maybe

 

[Mingle]

1) Well we were looking at them in the first place until Turkey came along because of
F-35 saga as informed by Khafee
2) In such deals i think ( Mauka and ullo ) might not be a thing to worry as we would be not behaving like Indians & caused this rather opportunity arose itself.
3) "Sanctions Prone" dilemma is always there , but it doesn't mean we don't get what we need.
4) Concluding my argument, I think the main reason in the past & prest is COST , but If we were looking for them and "Financial terms would have been in our favour" ,
Maybe..., just Maybe

Turkey will never buy Russian Jett Su 57 may be but nothing less than that

 

[Caprxl]

@Khafee with J15 along new and old Vipers we don't need any EF thing I am surprised that these j15 planes are not cheap very expensive

Well if I got it correctly, J-xx would be for Naval Air Arm role, that still leaves space for Another4++ , why don't don't you figure out this in equation and again let me know what u think.

 

[TomCat]

Well if I got it correctly, J-xx would be for Naval Air Arm role, that still leaves space for Another4++ , why don't don't you figure out this in equation and again let me know what u think.

But not cash i guess

 

[Caprxl]

The issue of "finance" still exists.

But not cash i guess

I know, but again looking at em before means Maybe we would have managed something like you @Khafee said , but again , You guys r correct, it was all Would/Could/Should

 

[Khafee]

1) Well we were looking at them in the first place until Turkey came along because of
F-35 saga as informed by Khafee
2) In such deals i think ( Mauka and ullo ) might not be a thing to worry as we would be not behaving like Indians & caused this rather opportunity arose itself.
3) "Sanctions Prone" dilemma is always there , but it doesn't mean we don't get what we need.
4) Concluding my argument, I think the main reason in the past & prest is COST , but If we were looking for them and "Financial terms would have been in our favour" ,
Maybe..., just Maybe

The idea was 18 used and 18 new. The only issue is finance. Should that be sorted out, it will happen. Maybe now the EF consortium will be more flexible?

 

[Caprxl]

The idea was 18 used and 18 new. The only issue is finance. Should that be sorted out, it will happen. Maybe now the EF consortium will be more flexible?

Maybe e eee?

 

[Cookie Monster]

I'm not active over there. Can you copy and paste here?

Thanks!

Below is copy pasted from PDF...I posted this before u revealed that it was J15...so u can ignore my guess for the Typhoon.

"U mentioned that F16 block 70/72 are on the cards and the rest depends on terms and conditions.
U also mentioned Zulus up for grabs for Pak.
This brings me to the question of the engines for T129s from Turkey...the greenlight from US is necessary for those. So if US is willing to give Pak the latest F16s and AH1Z...I assume those engines shouldn't be a problem?

My next question is regarding ur mention of Su35 being considered...but more as a bargaining chip for something else...
This to me is somewhat puzzling. Su35 could be a good platform and all...but IMO PAF would look at other options first. The reason being PAF having a history of operating Western and Chinese assets. Purchasing a Russian fighter jet that PAF has never operated before(except for training on flankers with the Chinese) would add a huge cost. It would require Pak to purchase Russian weaponry...integration of Russian datalink(similar to what Pak had to do with Link16 and Link17)...not to mention maintenance. In short it would be a whole lot of extra work...for that same amount of money Pak can look at alternatives that can also get that same job done and wouldn't create this nightmare.

Chinese flankers can be looked at, in which case they would have commonality with JF17s in terms of ammunition(at the very least). Alternatively Typhoon or other European platform will work with Link 16 and American missiles.

If PAF is searching for a twin engine air superiority heavy hitter like the Su35...as a bargaining chip for something else...the only thing I can think of is Typhoon?
- It can't be F16...since PAF is already getting those.
- It can't be Gripen or J10 since both are somewhat similar enough in capability to JF17(and F16s can do the job of those two jets just fine). Not to mention J10 can be easily acquired(if money is available and PAF wants it).
- U said Chinese flankers are way down on the list...and there's the question of Russian objections.
- J20 is off limits
- Rafale was sold to India so I don't think PAF would go for that

This boils it down to EF Typhoon, F15, and F18 as the comparable twin engine heavy hitters. IMO Typhoon would probably be higher on the list than F15 or F18. If it is indeed Typhoon...then that brings me to the question of money.

Too many questions and not enough answers...it would be much appreciated if u could clear some things up...if possible"

 

[Khafee]

Below is copy pasted from PDF...I posted this before u revealed that it was J15...so u can ignore my guess for the Typhoon.

"U mentioned that F16 block 70/72 are on the cards and the rest depends on terms and conditions.
U also mentioned Zulus up for grabs for Pak.
This brings me to the question of the engines for T129s from Turkey...the greenlight from US is necessary for those. So if US is willing to give Pak the latest F16s and AH1Z...I assume those engines shouldn't be a problem?

My next question is regarding ur mention of Su35 being considered...but more as a bargaining chip for something else...
This to me is somewhat puzzling. Su35 could be a good platform and all...but IMO PAF would look at other options first. The reason being PAF having a history of operating Western and Chinese assets. Purchasing a Russian fighter jet that PAF has never operated before(except for training on flankers with the Chinese) would add a huge cost. It would require Pak to purchase Russian weaponry...integration of Russian datalink(similar to what Pak had to do with Link16 and Link17)...not to mention maintenance. In short it would be a whole lot of extra work...for that same amount of money Pak can look at alternatives that can also get that same job done and wouldn't create this nightmare.

Chinese flankers can be looked at, in which case they would have commonality with JF17s in terms of ammunition(at the very least). Alternatively Typhoon or other European platform will work with Link 16 and American missiles.

If PAF is searching for a twin engine air superiority heavy hitter like the Su35...as a bargaining chip for something else...the only thing I can think of is Typhoon?
- It can't be F16...since PAF is already getting those.
- It can't be Gripen or J10 since both are somewhat similar enough in capability to JF17(and F16s can do the job of those two jets just fine). Not to mention J10 can be easily acquired(if money is available and PAF wants it).
- U said Chinese flankers are way down on the list...and there's the question of Russian objections.
- J20 is off limits
- Rafale was sold to India so I don't think PAF would go for that

This boils it down to EF Typhoon, F15, and F18 as the comparable twin engine heavy hitters. IMO Typhoon would probably be higher on the list than F15 or F18. If it is indeed Typhoon...then that brings me to the question of money.

Too many questions and not enough answers...it would be much appreciated if u could clear some things up...if possible"

Are you clear now on the above now, or would you like me to brief you?

 

[TomCat]

The idea was 18 used and 18 new. The only issue is finance. Should that be sorted out, it will happen. Maybe now the EF consortium will be more flexible?

Ok, how about this, a question as if you are a customer. Lets Forget PAF, would you prefer 24 Heavy Fighters J-15 (AESA + attractive weapons package(Unknown type let not count this)) or 36 Medium weight EFT's (T1 and T3s, restricted weapons package, AESA(Unknown type let not count this))
I would pick up Heavy Weight given that i already have a medium weight platform with me however, if the tables turn, we dont get F16s, Typhoons would be a better choice

 

[Cookie Monster]

Are you clear now on the above now, or would you like me to brief you?

I'm clear on the Su35 being a decoy for some other jet. My question still remains regarding the approval for engines of T129.

 

[Khafee]

Ok, how about this, a question as if you are a customer. Lets Forget PAF, would you prefer 24 Heavy Fighters J-15 (AESA + attractive weapons package(Unknown type let not count this)) or 36 Medium weight EFT's (T1 and T3s, restricted weapons package, AESA(Unknown type let not count this))
I would pick up Heavy Weight given that i already have a medium weight platform with me however, if the tables turn, we dont get F16s, Typhoons would be a better choice

The way I see it, IA:

Zulu
Viper
J-15
EF