Pakistan Gets F16 -Blk70/72

[TomCat]

You should give a though to UCAV as future gen fighter loaded with A2A missiles.

I played Ace Combat - Assault Horizon some 5-6 years ago, best Simulation Game and engine. There was a concept introduced in Ace Combat 7, an awacs launched like a swarm of very small B-2 like UAVs at least a 130, distracted the jet very much eventually destroying. This is a cheap solution but unneeded as such things are mostly used in WVR which has become obsolete to some extent. The swarm of UAVs were like kamikaze UAV, like when you mess with a bee hive and a whole gang of bees come out. Remotely controlled and directed from withing the AWACS

 

[chachag]

People need to understand one thing , This Jet J-15P (P for Pakistani Version) If (As @Khafee said it is still on MOU level) a big IF coming it will come for Pakistan NAVY , J-15 is a heavy weight jet and currently it weight around 17500 KG upgraded Chinese version may have less weight and Pakistani land base version (without carrier base eqm) will weight around 16000 KG (my guess) .....
Instead of going for JH-7 or any other old bird Pakistan is going for new jet for Navy …. J-15 can take 4 Anti-Ship missiles and about 4 PL-15 long range BVR ...…. this is one hell of a force multiplier for Pakistan Navy …….
And for Medium weight heavy (for PAF) Pakistan can go for F-16 , EFT or simply can wait for AZM (if we get J-15 for Navy and F-16s for PAF we can wait for AZM)..
Personally I will like PAF to have :

• 150 JF-17 Block III
• 30 JF-17 block B
• 70 JF-17 NG (and they can replace older birds from block I & II) total 250 JF-17s
• 120 F-16s (all upgraded to V stander)
• 70 EFTs Tre III
• 60 AZM(5th Gen)

Total 490 latest birds , at least 310 from them made in Pakistan (cost effective) ..
Now For Pakistan Navy Air Wing , I will love to see them with:

• 36+ Jf-17 Block III later upgraded to JF-17 NG
• 36 J-15s

Thanks for reading my wish list , i hope and Pray PAF and Pakistan Navy get what i Wished

 

[Khafee]

How many EF??

The idea was 18 used and 18 new. The only issue is finance. Should that be sorted out, it will happen. Maybe now the EF consortium will be more flexible?

 

[TomCat]

People need to understand one thing , This Jet J-15P (P for Pakistani Version) If (As @Khafee said it is still on MOU level) a big IF coming it will come for Pakistan NAVY , J-15 is a heavy weight jet and currently it weight around 17500 KG upgraded Chinese version may have less weight and Pakistani land base version (without carrier base eqm) will weight around 16000 KG (my guess) .....
Instead of going for JH-7 or any other old bird Pakistan is going for new jet for Navy …. J-15 can take 4 Anti-Ship missiles and about 4 PL-15 long range BVR ...…. this is one hell of a force multiplier for Pakistan Navy …….
And for Medium weight heavy (for PAF) Pakistan can go for F-16 , EFT or simply can wait for AZM (if we get J-15 for Navy and F-16s for PAF we can wait for AZM)..
Personally I will like PAF to have :

• 150 JF-17 Block III
• 30 JF-17 block B
• 70 JF-17 NG (and they can replace older birds from block I & II) total 250 JF-17s
• 120 F-16s (all upgraded to V stander)
• 70 EFTs Tre III
• 60 AZM(5th Gen)

Total 490 latest birds , at least 310 from them made in Pakistan (cost effective) ..
Now For Pakistan Navy Air Wing , I will love to see them with:

• 36+ Jf-17 Block III later upgraded to JF-17 NG
• 36 J-15s

Thanks for reading my wish list , i hope and Pray PAF and Pakistan Navy get what i Wished

AZM is very far away. Several phases are involved in Fighter Program as you already might know, One can only just hope to see a prototype by 2024, serial PN by 28 and induction by 30+

 

[Khafee]

Nobody is gonna shoot you- the post you are currently assigned to , im sure you have a body guard and travel with a bit of an entourage.

"a body guard" = No

 

[Khafee]

By no means do i want to know any thing out of limits. It's not our business to know. What my original post meant was just as a neutral forum member, you & me both. I do respect you and all others who respect their respective organizations. And yea, i do admit my mistake here, that question was sort of dragging this all into internal...Sometimes we get really excited... Khair hai, will take care. Massive respect for you

No issues bro.

 

[Signalian]

I played Ace Combat - Assault Horizon some 5-6 years ago, best Simulation Game and engine. There was a concept introduced in Ace Combat 7, an awacs launched like a swarm of very small B-2 like UAVs at least a 130, distracted the jet very much eventually destroying. This is a cheap solution but unneeded as such things are mostly used in WVR which has become obsolete to some extent. The swarm of UAVs were like kamikaze UAV, like when you mess with a bee hive and a whole gang of bees come out. Remotely controlled and directed from withing the AWACS

Two thoughts on this:

1. F-16's Data Link (Link-16) should be able to control UAV/UCAV, if some tweaking is done, which PAF cannot do. This technology will be available in AH-64 through Data Link.

2. For the UCAV itself to become a fighter, SWaP (Size Weight and Power) requirements need to be re-examined. probably 6th Gen fighter.

 

[Signalian]

"a body guard" = No

If I would narrow it down to command and staff posts- your post will get revealed, lets leave it at that

 

[Mastankhan]

What could happen if PAF remove TST guys and just avoid any Laws imposed during sale agreement of F-16 and go on an independant upgrading spree from some other source such as Turkey ozgur. I know this will have dire consequences for both us and the one giving us upgrade but i just want to imagine the lengths this situation could go to. Would that be any how persuasive enough for US to officially consider giving us upgrades without any T&C strings attached? Is TST situated in every F-16 Operating country? @Khafee @Signalian @Caprxl

Hi,

It is possible that after a certain number of years---Paf can modify the F16 to whatever it wants to from whomever it chooses---. The contract can shed some lite on it---.

 

[Caprxl]

What could happen if PAF remove TST guys and just avoid any Laws imposed during sale agreement of F-16 and go on an independant upgrading spree from some other source such as Turkey ozgur. I know this will have dire consequences for both us and the one giving us upgrade but i just want to imagine the lengths this situation could go to. Would that be any how persuasive enough for US to officially consider giving us upgrades without any T&C strings attached? Is TST situated in every F-16 Operating country? @Khafee @Signalian @Caprxl

Well Khafee just gave u the answer

Going further that will not happen until & unless ( for whatever reason ) we see both of the Diplomatic staffs packing & leaving D.C.& Diplomatic Enclave ISB & all support being halted. Even then it would take years until we start getting out of spares, we didn't go that path in ops when Sanctions were showered upon us.

Furthermore, this point may never come for obvious reason Khafee mentioned earlier, please refer to post#2 of this thread.

The Question is: "Why is the US reaching out to the Pakistan?"

Two reasons:
1) China - Pakistan has slid so far into the Chinese camp, that is now a de facto province. Something which is extremely worrying for the Americans.

The Feb hostilities saw 3 PLAAF squadrons go to standby - in order to assist Pakistan if needed. PLAN sent 4 SSK , and 3 boomers, at least two Type 55 destroyers, other assets were also sent later after the ISI chiefs visit. PLA also went to full war time alert, ready to move in.

This is the main reason why IN choose to sleep out the hostilities.

2) India - India's incompetence hasn't gone unnoticed, neither has them becoming an economic threat to the US. To contain them, and move Pak away from the Chinese camp, to whatever extent possible. These are the two goals.

The US has a list of some 10~20 companies that are critical to National Security, LM, Boeing Raytheon, Cisco etc. Sensitive data has been steadily flowing to India, China, Russia, Israel, courtesy of Indians. The deep state has realized its folly, AND no president will work against the deep state.

The trade balance being lopsided, doesn't help them either.

Imran Khan, wants to make a change, a fundamental change in Pak, but decades old rot, bogs him down. He also has the support of the Army. All these things combined, has assured the US that Pakistan can be a useful ally after all.

Last but not the least, Pakistan's oil reserves slightly more than the UK's at 21bn BBL (min) doesn't hurt it either. By comparison Oman's Reserves are at 5.3bn BBL (approx).

Once all options are exploited, Pakistan will be exporting 1.2m bpd ~ 1.4m bpd. (this figure is after deducting domestic consumption).

Given the above, it is in US's national interest to rekindle its relationship with an old ally.

 

[TomCat]

Two thoughts on this:

1. F-16's Data Link (Link-16) should be able to control UAV/UCAV, if some tweaking is done, which PAF cannot do. This technology will be available in AH-64 through Data Link.

2. For the UCAV itself to become a fighter, SWaP (Size Weight and Power) requirements need to be re-examined. probably 6th Gen fighter.

Isnt that's what dassault is planning on to do. They even unveiled a design for their Unmanned 6th Gen Stealth Fighter. They are skipping 5th Gen. What you are suggesting is what we must start on the sidelines. Yesterday, i read a post by Sir @Mastankhan in which he gave credit to china for jumping from the likes of J-7/J-8 to a 5th Gen Fighter aircraft comparable in almost every aspect to F-22. Dedication and vision is required. We already have a good knowledge and experience on UAVs, but tbh, apparently, to what we general public know are our basic UAVs, not even a WingLoong like UAV can we make from scratch (?), again i could be wrong as we dont know what is going on. But we do have ToT of some Chinese Drones, even Burraq the so called locally made isn't. But given the rapid pace of research we are doing now, Kamra, Aviation City, we can easily get in the 6th gen lineup once we get our experience from AZM. AZM is very critical project, we must try to avoid major helps fro others in this project, in just a matter of 8-12 years, we will have a big pool of experienced, world class aeronautical/aviation engineers.

 

[Caprxl]

Ok, how about this, a question as if you are a customer. Lets Forget PAF, would you prefer 24 Heavy Fighters J-15 (AESA + attractive weapons package(Unknown type let not count this)) or 36 Medium weight EFT's (T1 and T3s, restricted weapons package, AESA(Unknown type let not count this))
I would pick up Heavy Weight given that i already have a medium weight platform with me however, if the tables turn, we dont get F16s, Typhoons would be a better choice

1st we should get this sorted out that Are we sure these heavies are for PAF ?? I dont think so, all pointers are hinting towards Naval Air Arm of Pakistan, so I will not agree with your opinion.

 

[TomCat]

Two thoughts on this:

1. F-16's Data Link (Link-16) should be able to control UAV/UCAV, if some tweaking is done, which PAF cannot do. This technology will be available in AH-64 through Data Link.

2. For the UCAV itself to become a fighter, SWaP (Size Weight and Power) requirements need to be re-examined. probably 6th Gen fighter.

Why don't we go that route for Thunder B? Ohh and btw, is there anything called "Air Launched UAV"?

 

[BATMAN]

Guys for AZM developments, we have a separate discussion threads.
Whenever there's a new post notification of this thread, i expect to see some relevance to F-16.

 

[TomCat]

1st we should get this sorted out that Are we sure these heavies are for PAF ?? I dont think so, all pointers are hinting towards Naval Air Arm of Pakistan, so I will not agree with your opinion.

If that really is the truth and naval arm is considered, MAN , this means we WILL get one more platform for AF as well. I really consider us Pakistanis lucky to be on the left side of border, We throw in surprises, neighbours pants get wet... I would just wish for Republic day parade to be everyday. We will see Thunder Block 3/B, F-16 Block 70, EF T3, J-15, Mirages and one day AZM.

OHH and btw, yesterday, i was eating paya, opened this thread, Sir khafee didnt reveal until hen about J-15, then i saw the post, didn't knew what i was doing, got excited, after a min i saw my whole naan dipped in paya, excitement...