Pakistan Gets F16 -Blk70/72

[Khafee]

Than better post some relevant pictures.

View attachment 10811

 

[Signalian]

Differences between Block 60 and 70?

Most notably is the radar Block 70 has APG 83 to Block 60's APG 80.

 

[TomCat]

Dr shahid may God bless U never watch his show Lambi Lambi chorta Hai. I can better comment on Pak politics than Him reason I have no agenda or channel policy. Omni Group offering money they will bail out rest NS and SS I doubt it they still have alot of pawns in Govt machine and judiciary but if seqeez continues and they feel there is no way out they may offer money at the moment they betting MOB Diesal. Main thing is taxation if traders and Dr lawyers come into tax net then we can have F15s or EF brand new as many as we want reason 3 billion a yr from tax money won't be an issue for armed forces upgradtions wait yr or two if current Ecomic policy and tax net drive continues All will come with better offers with theior toys including LM Boeing EU Russia u name it they have intelligence about procurement in theior embassies and once they realize Pak have money to buy then see what happens

I dont listen to him, my dad USED TO, and when that happened, i also happened to be with him in car so had to listen those BS. People dont want to pay taxes. They don't like law. Just want their plate filled from government

 

[TomCat]

Most notably is the radar Block 70 has APG 83 to Block 60's APG 80.

Isn't 83 on F-35

 

[TomCat]

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Have you got any experience in Refueling mission? Have heard that it's quite A TASK!!

 

[Signalian]

Isn't 83 on F-35

F-16 Fighting Falcon

Discover the F-16 Fighting Falcon, the world's most capable 4th generation multi-role military jet. Explore Lockheed Martin's advanced fighter capabilities.

www.lockheedmartin.com

Northrop Grumman’s advanced APG-83 AESA radar delivers greater situational awareness, flexibility and quicker all-weather targeting. The APG-83 provides pilots with unprecedented target area detail and digital map displays that can be tailored with slew and zoom features. The APG-83 provides F-16s with 5th Generation fighter radar capabilities by leveraging hardware and software commonality with F-22 and F-35 AESA radars.

 

[Mingle]

I dont listen to him, my dad USED TO, and when that happened, i also happened to be with him in car so had to listen those BS. People dont want to pay taxes. They don't like law. Just want their plate filled from government

Well if Govt stick with Guns along Army it will happen eventually what IK is doing Is very important for long term economic corrections it's pain in near term but will long term very fruitful. Trader and other walk of life has to pay theior fare share of tax very simple they can do strike what ever its very important to dacument whole economy if it happens it will be single biggest achievement of IK and PTI which Mush failed to do and it will be great thing for future Generations of Pak no need for IMF along spending money on public and on defence. This yr only Hafeez sheikh said will collect 1.6 trillion in tax means Pak will borrow only for loan repayment great if it increases 2 to 2.5 trillions in next two yrs Game over simple with passage of time $$ will come down further or like Turkey we can reevaluate Rs against $

 

[Mingle]

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Yahoodi F16s ??

 

[Khafee]

Most notably is the radar Block 70 has APG 83 to Block 60's APG 80.

And which is better?

 

[Khafee]

Yahoodi F16s ??

The last 3 are pics of UAEAF Blk 60 which was loaned to LM.

 

[Mingle]

The last 3 are pics of UAEAF Blk 60 which was loaned to LM.

Oh I thought it's IAF F16 s

 

[Khafee]

Have you got any experience in Refueling mission? Have heard that it's quite A TASK!!

UAE takes delivery of its first A330 multi role tanker and transport aircraft | Times Aerospace

Converted from an Airbus A330 commercial passenger jet by Airbus Military at Getafe near Madrid, the aircraft will serve with the UAE Air Force and Air Defence. The remaining two aircraft are at an advanced stage of conversion and will be delivered by mid-2013. The type has now been delivered to...

www.arabianaerospace.aero

 

[Mastankhan]

Isnt that's what dassault is planning on to do. They even unveiled a design for their Unmanned 6th Gen Stealth Fighter. They are skipping 5th Gen. What you are suggesting is what we must start on the sidelines. Yesterday, i read a post by Sir @Mastankhan in which he gave credit to china for jumping from the likes of J-7/J-8 to a 5th Gen Fighter aircraft comparable in almost every aspect to F-22. Dedication and vision is required. We already have a good knowledge and experience on UAVs, but tbh, apparently, to what we general public know are our basic UAVs, not even a WingLoong like UAV can we make from scratch (?), again i could be wrong as we dont know what is going on. But we do have ToT of some Chinese Drones, even Burraq the so called locally made isn't. But given the rapid pace of research we are doing now, Kamra, Aviation City, we can easily get in the 6th gen lineup once we get our experience from AZM. AZM is very critical project, we must try to avoid major helps fro others in this project, in just a matter of 8-12 years, we will have a big pool of experienced, world class aeronautical/aviation engineers.

Hi,

We need to stay with the 4.5 gen for the longest---but progress needs to be made on the 5th gen project---.

China is in a different position---. For it to progress into the 5th gen is due to tactical reasons---.

 

[Signalian]

People need to understand one thing , This Jet J-15P (P for Pakistani Version) If (As @Khafee said it is still on MOU level) a big IF coming it will come for Pakistan NAVY , J-15 is a heavy weight jet and currently it weight around 17500 KG upgraded Chinese version may have less weight and Pakistani land base version (without carrier base eqm) will weight around 16000 KG (my guess) .....
Instead of going for JH-7 or any other old bird Pakistan is going for new jet for Navy …. J-15 can take 4 Anti-Ship missiles and about 4 PL-15 long range BVR ...…. this is one hell of a force multiplier for Pakistan Navy …….
And for Medium weight heavy (for PAF) Pakistan can go for F-16 , EFT or simply can wait for AZM (if we get J-15 for Navy and F-16s for PAF we can wait for AZM)..
Personally I will like PAF to have :

• 150 JF-17 Block III
• 30 JF-17 block B
• 70 JF-17 NG (and they can replace older birds from block I & II) total 250 JF-17s
• 120 F-16s (all upgraded to V stander)
• 70 EFTs Tre III
• 60 AZM(5th Gen)

Total 490 latest birds , at least 310 from them made in Pakistan (cost effective) ..
Now For Pakistan Navy Air Wing , I will love to see them with:

• 36+ Jf-17 Block III later upgraded to JF-17 NG
• 36 J-15s

Thanks for reading my wish list , i hope and Pray PAF and Pakistan Navy get what i Wished

Let me throw some data at you to do some brain storming. I will mention Three Point of views to look at aircraft replacement for PAF, not just numbers. This is all food for thought. The replacement process may involve some or all or even none of below factors.

SQUADRON Line Up

For first point of view, lets go through a squadron line up.

Training:
No. 1 Sqn Rahbars K-8P
Number 18 and Number 20 are OCU squadrons used for training in F-7 aircrafts but im adjusting them under fighters.

Transport:
No. 6 Sqn Antelopes C-130
No. 10 Sqn Bulls Il-78 Midas
No. 12 Sqn Globe Trotters Airbus A310, Phenom 100, Gulf Stream IV
No. 21 Sqn Burraqs C-130

EW/AEW:
No. 3 Sqn Angels Saab 2000 Erieye
No. 4 Sqn Shaanxi ZDK-03
No. 24 Sqn Blinders Falcon DA-20

Fighters:
No. 2 Sqn Minhas JF-17 Thunder
No. 14 Sqn Tail Choppers JF-17 Thunder
No. 16 Sqn Black Panthers JF-17 Thunder
No. 26 Sqn Black Spiders JF-17 Thunder
No. 28 Sqn Phoenix JF-17 Thunder

No. 5 Sqn Falcons F-16C/D Block 52+
No. 9 Sqn Griffins F-16AM/BM Block 15 MLU
No. 11 Sqn Arrows F-16AM/BM Block 15 MLU
No. 19 Sqn Sherdils F-16A/B Block15 ADF
No. 29 Sqn Aggressors F-16

No. 7 Sqn Bandits Mirage IIIEA/DP ROSE I, Mirage EL
No. 8 Sqn Haiders Mirage 5VPA2/3 - PN
No. 15 Sqn Cobras Mirage IIIRP/EP, Mirage VPA,VDA,DR
No. 22 Sqn Ghazis Mirage IIIDF,IIIDA,EL,DL
No. 25 Sqn Night Strike Eagles Mirage 5VEF ROSE II, IIIDP
No. 27 Sqn Zarrars Mirage 5 ROSE III, VEF

No. 17 Sqn Tigers F-7PG
No. 18 Sqn Sharp Shooters F-7P
No. 20 Sqn Cheetahs F-7P
No. 23 Sqn Talons F-7PG

You can see 4 x F-7 Squadrons need replacement, then Mirage squadrons need to be replaced.
4 x Squadrons amount to roughly 72 aircrafts.
5 x Mirage squadrons are 90 aicrafts, these include specialist ROSE squadrons, which will be last ones to go,if they ever get replaced within next 2 decades.
1 x Naval Squadron -8th sqn - 18 aircraft.

Considerations:
1. So How many PAF squadrons can JF-17 replace?
2. How many can F-16 replace?
3. Should naval squadron be replaced by JF-17? or a completely new type of aircraft ?
4. How many more new squadrons should be raised ?


WING and BASE Configuration:

Now instead of squadrons, we can also go through wing to wing or bases. That might get too deep. But just have a look;
4 x Mirage Squadrons located at Rafiqui AFB under 34 Tactical Attack Wing in Shorkot
2 X Mirage squadrons located at Masroor AFB under 32 Tactical Attack Wing in Karachi

2 x F-7 squadrons are used for training at M M Alam Base under 37 Combat training Wing in Mianwali along with K-8 squadron.


The above configuration gives an idea that PAF may need to replace 4 Mirage squadrons with a Strike aircraft and since all are at same base (34 wing), so its possible that same type of aircraft has to be based there to replace all 4 squadrons.
Now can you speculate, which aircraft will be acquired by PAF that can replace 4 Squadrons.

Secondly, 2 x Mirage squadrons (7th Sqn and 8th Sqn)are based in karachi, out of which 1 Mirage squadron is dedicated for Naval role, flown by PN pilots. Second is used for attack role. There is another squadron (2 Sqn - JF-17) configured to support PN.
So:
1. Will this mean that 1 Mirage-V and 1 JF-17 squadron will remain in Naval support role OR will PAF give a third squadron to PN when it replaces the second Mirage squadron at this base ?
2. The Mirage-V squadron (8th Sqn) has only 12 aircrafts - If PAF gives an order for 24 aircrafts , would this mean that all 24 aircrafts can be used to replace these 2 Mirage squadrons and dedicated for Naval role only?
3. Should Mirage 7th Sqn be replaced by JF-17 and the 8th Sqn be given a new type of aircraft for Naval role.

Thirdly, 2 x F-7 squadrons are used for OCU role in a Combat Training Wing (37th Wing).
1. If PAF gets a new type of aircraft, will one squadron of that aircraft (lets say J-15) get based under this Wing ? And also what should happen to other F-7 Sqn ?
2. Should F-7 keep flying converted to LIFT role ?
3. Should PAF get a new LIFT aircraft ?

AIRCRAFT/SQUADRON ROLE

The third point of view is the role assigned to an aircraft or a certain Squadron.

MultiRole
No. 5 MR F-16 C/D Block 52+
No. 9 MR F-16 A/B
No. 14 MR JF-17 Thunder
No. 16 MR JF-17 Thunder
No. 19 AD/MR F-16 A/B Block 15ADF
No. 26 MR JF-17 Thunder
No. 28 MR JF-17 Thunder

Operation Conversion Unit / Multi Role
No. 11 OCU/MR F-16 A/B

Tactical Attack
No. 7 TA Mirage-III ROSE I/Mirage V
No. 15 TA Mirage III/V
No. 25 TA Mirage -V ROSE II
No. 27 TA Mirage-V ROSE III

Maritime Support / Tactical Attack
No. 2 MR JF-17 Thunder
No. 8 TA Mirage V

Air Superiority
No. 17 AS F-7 PG
No. 23 AS F-7 PG


Operational Conversion Unit
No. 1 FCU K-8P
No. 18 OCU F-7 P
No. 20 OCU F-7 P
No. 22 OCU Mirage III


PAF uses F-16 for all kinds of role, so inducts it in Multirole Squadrons. JF-17's 14th Squadron was Air superiority squadron but converted to MR after F-7 was replaced with JF-17, which means JF-17 is considered as Multirole by PAF. Mirage III and Mirage V are mixed in few squadrons as they compliment each other, but Mirage is mainly used for attack role where as F-7 is used in air superiority role.

Considerations:
1. Which new aircraft type ( new or used F-16 or J-15) should be inducted in Air superiority squadrons?
2. Should TA or AS squadrons be converted to MR squadrons if more F-16s and JF-17 are inducted ?
3. Should be PAF get a dedicated strike aircraft for TA squadrons like J-15 ?
4. Should PAF assist PN in raising a Maritime strike squadron or retain 8th Sqn for under itself for Naval support?
5. Should AS squadrons get assigned to J-15 or EF, if these are inducted ? what other choice does PAF have for Air superiority aircraft ?

 

[Wolf-PK]

the political dynamics have changed the situation again in last 48 hrs.... EFT-1 is again on top of the list .... J-xx is entirely different project for PN....although it is being pitched in parallel. Finances for J-xx is not an issue ....Chinese are more than hurry to develop PN air arm for their own CPEC objectives. and we might see some thing on ground soorer thn expected.