Pakistan Gets F16 -Blk70/72

[Cookie Monster]

the political dynamics have changed the situation again in last 48 hrs.... EFT-1 is again on top of the list .... J-xx is entirely different project for PN....although it is being pitched in parallel. Finances for J-xx is not an issue ....Chinese are more than hurry to develop PN air arm for their own CPEC objectives. and we might see some thing on ground soorer thn expected.

Are those ur personal speculations or Khafee style leaks?

 

[Wolf-PK]

Are those ur personal speculation or Khafee style leaks?

Sir plz mujhey muaf kar dein gareeb admi hon.....

 

[Cookie Monster]

Sir plz mujhey muaf kar dein gareeb admi hon.....

I'm just curious bro. Purely asking out of curiosity...if u don't wish to answer for some reason that's okay.

I just like to know so I can file the information accordingly in my head.

 

[Wolf-PK]

wait wait wait......just read Foreign Spokesman recent presser....If it is Rafale Fighter Jet or another we know how to defend .....

 

[TomCat]

wait wait wait......just read Foreign Spokesman recent presser....If it is Rafale Fighter Jet or another we know how to defend .....

Link link link, is foreign spokesmen statement out now?

 

[Wolf-PK]

Link link link, is foreign spokesmen statement out now?

I think I posted foreign spokesman statement in previous posts.....

Pakistan knows how to defend itself, Rafale or no Rafale: FO

Pakistan will not indulge in any arms race, says FO spokesperson Dr Faisal

www.geo.tv

 

[TomCat]

I think I posted foreign spokesman statement in previous posts.....

Pakistan knows how to defend itself, Rafale or no Rafale: FO

Pakistan will not indulge in any arms race, says FO spokesperson Dr Faisal

www.geo.tv

The spokesperson further said Pakistan will not indulge in any arms race. “The focus of the present government was on human development, health and education,” he said.

I am fed-up of hearing this drama of arms-race.
And when these same people mention Pakistan becoming a key player in the region, Super Power in the future, One of the World reshapers in future, then arms race or specifically a MIGHT inventory and procurement spree is a must. Even less influencing countries in Middle East have much better in terms of Technology than us if we see it REALISTICALLY.

 

[loanranger]

The spokesperson further said Pakistan will not indulge in any arms race. “The focus of the present government was on human development, health and education,” he said.

I am fed-up of hearing this drama of arms-race.
And when these same people mention Pakistan becoming a key player in the region, Super Power in the future, One of the World reshapers in future, then arms race or specifically a MIGHT inventory and procurement spree is a must. Even less influencing countries in Middle East have much better in terms of Technology than us if we see it REALISTICALLY.

The focus WAS on human development and other fluffy stuff....WAS

 

[TomCat]

The focus WAS on human development and other fluffy stuff....WAS

Yea i did read that. That 'WAS' describes the whole PM, COAS delegation to China and before to USA. Somethimes these statements get on me. Trust me, as much as i would love to see IK improve education, he wont succeed much in that arena, Our Education system is weak deep down to root, teachers incompetent, students largely uninterested in studies rather other activities. Private education is destroying our youth by inducing their own foreign narratives and mindsets, producing secular, khooni-liberals.
BUT lets keep this topic aside for another thread. Back to Block 72.

 

[TomCat]

Let me throw some data at you to do some brain storming. I will mention Three Point of views to look at aircraft replacement for PAF, not just numbers. This is all food for thought. The replacement process may involve some or all or even none of below factors.

SQUADRON Line Up

For first point of view, lets go through a squadron line up.

Training:
No. 1 Sqn Rahbars K-8P
Number 18 and Number 20 are OCU squadrons used for training in F-7 aircrafts but im adjusting them under fighters.

Transport:
No. 6 Sqn Antelopes C-130
No. 10 Sqn Bulls Il-78 Midas
No. 12 Sqn Globe Trotters Airbus A310, Phenom 100, Gulf Stream IV
No. 21 Sqn Burraqs C-130

EW/AEW:
No. 3 Sqn Angels Saab 2000 Erieye
No. 4 Sqn Shaanxi ZDK-03
No. 24 Sqn Blinders Falcon DA-20

Fighters:
No. 2 Sqn Minhas JF-17 Thunder
No. 14 Sqn Tail Choppers JF-17 Thunder
No. 16 Sqn Black Panthers JF-17 Thunder
No. 26 Sqn Black Spiders JF-17 Thunder
No. 28 Sqn Phoenix JF-17 Thunder

No. 5 Sqn Falcons F-16C/D Block 52+
No. 9 Sqn Griffins F-16AM/BM Block 15 MLU
No. 11 Sqn Arrows F-16AM/BM Block 15 MLU
No. 19 Sqn Sherdils F-16A/B Block15 ADF
No. 29 Sqn Aggressors F-16

No. 7 Sqn Bandits Mirage IIIEA/DP ROSE I, Mirage EL
No. 8 Sqn Haiders Mirage 5VPA2/3 - PN
No. 15 Sqn Cobras Mirage IIIRP/EP, Mirage VPA,VDA,DR
No. 22 Sqn Ghazis Mirage IIIDF,IIIDA,EL,DL
No. 25 Sqn Night Strike Eagles Mirage 5VEF ROSE II, IIIDP
No. 27 Sqn Zarrars Mirage 5 ROSE III, VEF

No. 17 Sqn Tigers F-7PG
No. 18 Sqn Sharp Shooters F-7P
No. 20 Sqn Cheetahs F-7P
No. 23 Sqn Talons F-7PG

You can see 4 x F-7 Squadrons need replacement, then Mirage squadrons need to be replaced.
4 x Squadrons amount to roughly 72 aircrafts.
5 x Mirage squadrons are 90 aicrafts, these include specialist ROSE squadrons, which will be last ones to go,if they ever get replaced within next 2 decades.
1 x Naval Squadron -8th sqn - 18 aircraft.

Considerations:
1. So How many PAF squadrons can JF-17 replace?
2. How many can F-16 replace?
3. Should naval squadron be replaced by JF-17? or a completely new type of aircraft ?
4. How many more new squadrons should be raised ?


WING and BASE Configuration:

Now instead of squadrons, we can also go through wing to wing or bases. That might get too deep. But just have a look;
4 x Mirage Squadrons located at Rafiqui AFB under 34 Tactical Attack Wing in Shorkot
2 X Mirage squadrons located at Masroor AFB under 32 Tactical Attack Wing in Karachi

2 x F-7 squadrons are used for training at M M Alam Base under 37 Combat training Wing in Mianwali along with K-8 squadron.


The above configuration gives an idea that PAF may need to replace 4 Mirage squadrons with a Strike aircraft and since all are at same base (34 wing), so its possible that same type of aircraft has to be based there to replace all 4 squadrons.
Now can you speculate, which aircraft will be acquired by PAF that can replace 4 Squadrons.

Secondly, 2 x Mirage squadrons (7th Sqn and 8th Sqn)are based in karachi, out of which 1 Mirage squadron is dedicated for Naval role, flown by PN pilots. Second is used for attack role. There is another squadron (2 Sqn - JF-17) configured to support PN.
So:
1. Will this mean that 1 Mirage-V and 1 JF-17 squadron will remain in Naval support role OR will PAF give a third squadron to PN when it replaces the second Mirage squadron at this base ?
2. The Mirage-V squadron (8th Sqn) has only 12 aircrafts - If PAF gives an order for 24 aircrafts , would this mean that all 24 aircrafts can be used to replace these 2 Mirage squadrons and dedicated for Naval role only?
3. Should Mirage 7th Sqn be replaced by JF-17 and the 8th Sqn be given a new type of aircraft for Naval role.

Thirdly, 2 x F-7 squadrons are used for OCU role in a Combat Training Wing (37th Wing).
1. If PAF gets a new type of aircraft, will one squadron of that aircraft (lets say J-15) get based under this Wing ? And also what should happen to other F-7 Sqn ?
2. Should F-7 keep flying converted to LIFT role ?
3. Should PAF get a new LIFT aircraft ?

AIRCRAFT/SQUADRON ROLE

The third point of view is the role assigned to an aircraft or a certain Squadron.

MultiRole
No. 5 MR F-16 C/D Block 52+
No. 9 MR F-16 A/B
No. 14 MR JF-17 Thunder
No. 16 MR JF-17 Thunder
No. 19 AD/MR F-16 A/B Block 15ADF
No. 26 MR JF-17 Thunder
No. 28 MR JF-17 Thunder

Operation Conversion Unit / Multi Role
No. 11 OCU/MR F-16 A/B

Tactical Attack
No. 7 TA Mirage-III ROSE I/Mirage V
No. 15 TA Mirage III/V
No. 25 TA Mirage -V ROSE II
No. 27 TA Mirage-V ROSE III

Maritime Support / Tactical Attack
No. 2 MR JF-17 Thunder
No. 8 TA Mirage V

Air Superiority
No. 17 AS F-7 PG
No. 23 AS F-7 PG


Operational Conversion Unit
No. 1 FCU K-8P
No. 18 OCU F-7 P
No. 20 OCU F-7 P
No. 22 OCU Mirage III


PAF uses F-16 for all kinds of role, so inducts it in Multirole Squadrons. JF-17's 14th Squadron was Air superiority squadron but converted to MR after F-7 was replaced with JF-17, which means JF-17 is considered as Multirole by PAF. Mirage III and Mirage V are mixed in few squadrons as they compliment each other, but Mirage is mainly used for attack role where as F-7 is used in air superiority role.

Considerations:
1. Which new aircraft type ( new or used F-16 or J-15) should be inducted in Air superiority squadrons?
2. Should TA or AS squadrons be converted to MR squadrons if more F-16s and JF-17 are inducted ?
3. Should be PAF get a dedicated strike aircraft for TA squadrons like J-15 ?
4. Should PAF assist PN in raising a Maritime strike squadron or retain 8th Sqn for under itself for Naval support?
5. Should AS squadrons get assigned to J-15 or EF, if these are inducted ? what other choice does PAF have for Air superiority aircraft ?

Now that's what i call an interesting assignment. How about all of us get involved in this beauty you posted and discuss this rather off-craps (that unfortunately i myself have been doing on this thread)

 

[loanranger]

Private education is destroying our youth by inducing their own foreign narratives and mindsets, producing secular, khooni-liberals.

Never generalise. Our prime minister a senior of mine at my college and many others were the product of Private Education. Patriotisim at heart and learning the best from both worlds is the way to go.
When a wanabe attitude creeps into a personality thats when you make other countries your ideal like Hussain Haqqani and other unknown snakes.
Anyways back to our defence procurement needs

 

[Wolf-PK]

I think I posted foreign spokesman statement in previous posts.....

Pakistan knows how to defend itself, Rafale or no Rafale: FO

Pakistan will not indulge in any arms race, says FO spokesperson Dr Faisal

www.geo.tv

Don't worry about "Arms Race" it means nothing....it is written for spokesman for all occasions... with every new missile test, we always see this as part of our FO statement.

we should understand that"“If you fail to plan, you are planning to fail.” Sir Winston Churchill ....we are just trying to plan correctly....

 

[Caprxl]

Considerations:
1. Which new aircraft type ( new or used F-16 or J-15) should be inducted in Air superiority squadrons?
2. Should TA or AS squadrons be converted to MR squadrons if more F-16s and JF-17 are inducted ?
3. Should be PAF get a dedicated strike aircraft for TA squadrons like J-15 ?
4. Should PAF assist PN in raising a Maritime strike squadron or retain 8th Sqn for under itself for Naval support?
5. Should AS squadrons get assigned to J-15 or EF, if these are inducted ? what other choice does PAF have for Air superiority aircraft ?

A very well written piece ,
A question that keeps coming up in mind is that IF we are unable to acquire EF & J-15 is assigned to raise PN Maritime Squad at priority , COULD we procure J-15 later for AS squad for PAF as well ?

 

[CHI RULES]

What ever they do should immediately go for a capable MR platform at earliest and if it is EU fighter of old trench even then should be upgraded with AESA . latest AAMs and superior EW capabilities to counter Rafael. I have heard statements of senior PAF serving and retired officials who said that it shall take about 5-10 years by India to integrate Rafael, though on surface this statements looks mostly true but there are some facts we should consider first.
1-India has stock piled the required spares for SU30 MKI to improve readiness of these platforms along with arming them long ranged Russian/ Israel origin AAMs. They have near future projects to further upgrade them along with other platforms.
2- Latest platforms are easy to handle and one should assume that once deal was done the training of Indian pilots and staff was started. Now the IAF should be fully ready to use them in any future skirmish in combination with other platforms. The meteor has reported range and no escape zone much better than any previous one.

It is now Pakistan which is in hot waters not India we like it or not.

 

[BATMAN]

With old F-16 in use PAF would be needing replacement of F-16 as well, along side mirages.