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Khafee

Khafee

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Cookie Monster said:
It's not that there is no honest leaders in such a big population...
...it's the way the system is rigged...and the population for the most part stupid. Have we not witnessed the same goons play musical chairs with the seats of power in Pakistan for decades?
Even if by chance some courageous honest soul(who would be a very rare occurrence in Pakistan to begin with) steps forward...the idiotic "awam" would most likely not elect him/her bcuz they will be playing the same old politics of being "jiyala", "patwari", "youthia", etc. Not too long ago I got in a heated argument at another forum with an idiot from Karachi who voted for a politician from PPPP just bcuz he was "Urdu speaking".

I'm not a die hard fan of any one person...or one party. I just want the country to do better...and the ppl to finally be able to breathe...have a chance at life...have jobs, access to education, security, etc.(all the perks we enjoy living in developed countries)...
...with this in mind...I still think Imran Khan is marginally better than the likes of Zardari, Nawaz, Altaf, etc. He has had his failings...and if someone better comes along...I would be all for that person. However at this time...no such option exists...if anything I'm afraid that the ppl are going to revert back to PMLN or PPPP come next election. If anyone has any better options...I'm all ears.
Click to expand...
He has failed to deliver, dont think he is coming back in the next elections.
 
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BATMAN said:
Just by having 10-15 thousand mafia vote in any constituency, minority mafia can hijack a country. This is Pakistan's democratic system for you!
Iran has been exploiting this loop hole from decades. So basically, It's not the people rather the security agencies who come atop as jack a$$.

Now a days TLP gang is a new example of same old exploitation of Pakistan's democratic system, which in-fact is a sham. considering majority people do not vote for what ever reason. it can range from risk of loosing life in any firing /bombing incident, to having lost trust in system, remember security agencies are part of system. Politicians have lost respect in society, and so does the position of General, all thanks to Bajwa clan, who ruined all.... what was re-built by General Rahil Sharif.

Remaining non aligned rural /urban classes are wooed by false promises and hopes, but that's even field for all parties.
Click to expand...
The system is indeed broken...but I disagree with u in the way it is broken. While the politicians, generals, bureaucrats...all are responsible...u can't say that the ppl are not.

If anything I put a heavy blame on the ppl themselves...bcuz they easily just scapegoat and point at the looters...while bearing no responsibility for their own stupidity. If I leave my money out sitting on a bench in a public park...and blame passerbys for stealing it...surely my stupidity had a big part to play in it.

I grew up in Lahore...and I got to see up close...the pattern along which the ppl vote(in big cities/urban areas).
- The vote was given either bcuz that local politician(or thanks to the that particular political party) this person landed some cushy government job...and now his vote and his whole family's votes were earmarked for this political party election after election.
- Some politician(running for elections)...spent some money to plz the local ppl...solving some problems like building roads, fixing the sewage system of some town, telephone lines(back when it was landlines mainly), and other such minor problems...at some small scale. This was just a temporary thing during campaign...to please the ppl enough to get their votes...nevermind the fact that afterwards he/she looted much more than spent.
- Last but not least...was voting along ethnic lines.

Now coming to rural areas...I personally didn't live in rural areas...but here in the US...I met a lot of international Pakistani students(a lot of them my very close friends)...who come from various backgrounds...all are from families that u would call the "elites"...some are relatives of politicians, some are relatives of high ranking bureaucrats, some are relatives of "waderas", etc...think Aitchison O level graduates...whose families could obviously afford to earn in rupees and spend in dollars enough to be able to afford expensive US universities(especially expensive for international students) for several years. It's no easy feat btw.
Now to get to the point of voting patterns in rural areas...some of these international students I'm mentioning come from rural areas(their family owns massive amounts of land in rural areas).
- Basically...the ppl in rural areas vote for whoever their village's "Chaudhary" tells them to vote for.
- Another factor here as well is voting along ethnic lines.
^ this above only applies to rural areas of Punjab btw...I don't know much about rural areas of KPK, Balochistan, and Sindh...I assume clans would also play a part in those areas.

To make the long story short...ppl of Pakistan vote for either momentary self gain(their road being repaired or having some government job) while not caring how this person is going to loot the country at large...
...or they vote along ethnic lines...showing more loyalty to their own tribe, ethnicity, etc. rather than showing loyalty to the country.

Either they vote for these corrupt a**holes...knowing full well they are damaging the country for some short term self gain...
Or they vote in ignorance not paying attention to the actions of the ppl they elected(and therefore not knowing of their corruption/incompetence)...
...and I'm not sure which is worse.

P.S. I've tried mentioning these issues before at another forum...and basically got labelled as a "foreigner"...and ppl got offended saying that "who am I to call the Pakistani ppl stupid"...and that "it's easy for me to pass judgement while living comfortably in a western country"...
...and so that discussion was dead on arrival...not much of a discussion basically bcuz how dare I question the topic of uninformed(or purposely uninformed for some personal benefit) voter. Let's all conveniently ignore the fact that the state of democracy reflects heavily the ppl of that democracy(on average) just bcuz I'm an outsider. I wouldn't be surprised if ppl started using that same reasoning here as well.

@Khafee
 
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Khafee

Khafee

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Cookie Monster said:
The system is indeed broken...but I disagree with u in the way it is broken. While the politicians, generals, bureaucrats...all are responsible...u can't say that the ppl are not.

If anything I put a heavy blame on the ppl themselves...bcuz they easily just scapegoat and point at the looters...while bearing no responsibility for their own stupidity. If I leave my money out sitting on a bench in a public park...and blame passerbys for stealing it...surely my stupidity had a big part to play in it.

I grew up in Lahore...and I got to see up close...the pattern along which the ppl vote(in big cities/urban areas).
- The vote was given either bcuz that local politician(or thanks to the that particular political party) this person landed some cushy government job...and now his vote and his whole family's votes were earmarked for this political party election after election.
- Some politician(running for elections)...spent some money to plz the local ppl...solving some problems like building roads, fixing the sewage system of some town, telephone lines(back when it was landlines mainly), and other such minor problems...at some small scale. This was just a temporary thing during campaign...to please the ppl enough to get their votes...nevermind the fact that afterwards he/she looted much more than spent.
- Last but not least...was voting along ethnic lines.

Now coming to rural areas...I personally didn't live in rural areas...but here in the US...I met a lot of international Pakistani students(a lot of them my very close friends)...who come from various backgrounds...all are from families that u would call the "elites"...some are relatives of politicians, some are relatives of high ranking bureaucrats, some are relatives of "waderas", etc...think Aitchison O level graduates...whose families could obviously afford to earn in rupees and spend in dollars enough to be able to afford expensive US universities(especially expensive for international students) for several years. It's no easy feat btw.
Now to get to the point of voting patterns in rural areas...some of these international students I'm mentioning come from rural areas(their family owns massive amounts of land in rural areas).
- Basically...the ppl in rural areas vote for whoever their village's "Chaudhary" tells them to vote for.
- Another factor here as well is voting along ethnic lines.
^ this above only applies to rural areas of Punjab btw...I don't know much about rural areas of KPK, Balochistan, and Sindh...I assume clans would also play a part in those areas.

To make the long story short...ppl of Pakistan vote for either momentary self gain(their road being repaired or having some government job) while not caring how this person is going to loot the country at large...
...or they vote along ethnic lines...showing more loyalty to their own tribe, ethnicity, etc. rather than showing loyalty to the country.

Either they vote for these corrupt a**holes...knowing full well they are damaging the country for some short term self gain...
Or they vote in ignorance not paying attention to the actions of the ppl they elected(and therefore not knowing of their corruption/incompetence)...
...and I'm not sure which is worse.

P.S. I've tried mentioning these issues before at another forum...and basically got labelled as a "foreigner"...and ppl got offended saying that "who am I to call the Pakistani ppl stupid"...and that "it's easy for me to pass judgement while living comfortably in a western country"...
...and so that discussion was dead on arrival...not much of a discussion basically bcuz how dare I question the topic of uninformed(or purposely uninformed for some personal benefit) voter. Let's all conveniently ignore the fact that the state of democracy reflects heavily the ppl of that democracy(on average) just bcuz I'm an outsider. I wouldn't be surprised if ppl started using that same reasoning here as well.

@Khafee
Click to expand...


I used to think NAB was working hard, I was right, they are, but for whom?

 
Khafee

Khafee

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Cookie Monster said:
The system is indeed broken...but I disagree with u in the way it is broken. While the politicians, generals, bureaucrats...all are responsible...u can't say that the ppl are not.

If anything I put a heavy blame on the ppl themselves...bcuz they easily just scapegoat and point at the looters...while bearing no responsibility for their own stupidity. If I leave my money out sitting on a bench in a public park...and blame passerbys for stealing it...surely my stupidity had a big part to play in it.

I grew up in Lahore...and I got to see up close...the pattern along which the ppl vote(in big cities/urban areas).
- The vote was given either bcuz that local politician(or thanks to the that particular political party) this person landed some cushy government job...and now his vote and his whole family's votes were earmarked for this political party election after election.
- Some politician(running for elections)...spent some money to plz the local ppl...solving some problems like building roads, fixing the sewage system of some town, telephone lines(back when it was landlines mainly), and other such minor problems...at some small scale. This was just a temporary thing during campaign...to please the ppl enough to get their votes...nevermind the fact that afterwards he/she looted much more than spent.
- Last but not least...was voting along ethnic lines.

Now coming to rural areas...I personally didn't live in rural areas...but here in the US...I met a lot of international Pakistani students(a lot of them my very close friends)...who come from various backgrounds...all are from families that u would call the "elites"...some are relatives of politicians, some are relatives of high ranking bureaucrats, some are relatives of "waderas", etc...think Aitchison O level graduates...whose families could obviously afford to earn in rupees and spend in dollars enough to be able to afford expensive US universities(especially expensive for international students) for several years. It's no easy feat btw.
Now to get to the point of voting patterns in rural areas...some of these international students I'm mentioning come from rural areas(their family owns massive amounts of land in rural areas).
- Basically...the ppl in rural areas vote for whoever their village's "Chaudhary" tells them to vote for.
- Another factor here as well is voting along ethnic lines.
^ this above only applies to rural areas of Punjab btw...I don't know much about rural areas of KPK, Balochistan, and Sindh...I assume clans would also play a part in those areas.

To make the long story short...ppl of Pakistan vote for either momentary self gain(their road being repaired or having some government job) while not caring how this person is going to loot the country at large...
...or they vote along ethnic lines...showing more loyalty to their own tribe, ethnicity, etc. rather than showing loyalty to the country.

Either they vote for these corrupt a**holes...knowing full well they are damaging the country for some short term self gain...
Or they vote in ignorance not paying attention to the actions of the ppl they elected(and therefore not knowing of their corruption/incompetence)...
...and I'm not sure which is worse.

P.S. I've tried mentioning these issues before at another forum...and basically got labelled as a "foreigner"...and ppl got offended saying that "who am I to call the Pakistani ppl stupid"...and that "it's easy for me to pass judgement while living comfortably in a western country"...
...and so that discussion was dead on arrival...not much of a discussion basically bcuz how dare I question the topic of uninformed(or purposely uninformed for some personal benefit) voter. Let's all conveniently ignore the fact that the state of democracy reflects heavily the ppl of that democracy(on average) just bcuz I'm an outsider. I wouldn't be surprised if ppl started using that same reasoning here as well.

@Khafee
Click to expand...
An out of the box solution is needed, which I wont propose on this forum, but wait for our members to suggest. At the same time the Judiciary, and Police need a through cleaning and depoliticizing.

@Mangus Ortus Novem actually wrote a book on this topic 15yrs ago, and nowadays he enjoys his royalties in St..Kitts
 
Khafee

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PDM announces country-wide protests, long march against govt's 'anti-people' policies ​

November 6, 2021 - Updated 14 minutes ago
1636222628100.png
 
BATMAN

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Khafee said:
An out of the box solution is needed, which I wont propose on this forum, but wait for our members to suggest. At the same time the Judiciary, and Police need a through cleaning and depoliticizing.

@Mangus Ortus Novem actually wrote a book on this topic 15yrs ago, and nowadays he enjoys his royalties in St..Kitts
Click to expand...

Long term solution is education. short term solution only qualified people are allowed to vote.
Tax collection and spending 50% of it shall be authority of local bodies, who are also made responsible to provide quality school education.
 
BATMAN

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Ruling party made an alliance with a terrorist org. and removed their name from the list of terror org.
1636331902934.png
 
BATMAN

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Khafee said:
What happened in yesterdays NSC meeting? COAS seemed pretty upset.
Click to expand...
No idea, was not able to catchup with developing scenes due to extensive travelling.

As a short comment.... we all know, Bajwa was unfairly obliged by Imran Khan on his extension, in return he was meant to serve Imran Khan but apparently this return service fail to please IK thoroughly, regardless whatever IK's expectations may have been.

On the flipside, IK is exposed playing his own dirty little politics within the institution, which we have seen NS and Zardari playing in past, unsuccessfully.
Nonetheless, development translates to little prospects for another round of extension for Bajwa... which automatically end his subservient role, so from now on I expect Bajwa taking firm position on affairs, pertaining to army and national security.
As an example, in past IK was allowed to lobby for release of Abhinadan, and solely decide on use of Pakistan air space by Indian airlines.
Now compare to much recent example, where Indian airline was not allowed to fly over Pakistan, (was it from Srinagar to Sharja!?) this time poor IK could only watch from distant.
Interesting to note for me was IK's lifafa jurnos, quite sensibly decided to stay neutral, on the clash of titans.

On foreign affairs, Saudis stuffed IK with $billions, beating Ajit Devil to his own game.
 
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