Pakistan to buy 36 latest Su-35's - WDF Exclusive!

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

I'm sure the degree of tech trnsfr will be more than western platforms, this itself will help Project AZM.

In terms of 5th Gen projects, the Turks are right at the bottom. They have a lot of catching up to do, hence they are also looking at Russian platforms to catch up.

For cutting edge tech you have to pay through your nose, so local prod can definitely be a goal, but should not deter the induction of a cutting edge platform. Especially one that gives the flexibility of using both Chinese & Russian ammo.

PAF is looking at both Eastern & Western solutions, but in the near term, "I think" Eastern it will be.

Understandable....

Is it part of a broader package? I mean S400/500 in the mix or is it too much wishful thinking...

Also, what kinda freedom-of-movement we shall have... unlike US platforms...which cann't even break-wind without premission....

Anyhow, I am for localisation through and through... otherwise, we have a history of becoming lazy... and waiting for big sticks to fall on our head to wake up from sattoo induced sleepz

 

[Khafee]

Understandable....

Is it part of a broader package? I mean S400/500 in the mix or is it too much wishful thinking...

Also, what kinda freedom-of-movement we shall have... unlike US platforms...which cann't even break-wind without premission....

Anyhow, I am for localisation through and through... otherwise, we have a history of becoming lazy... and waiting for big sticks to fall on our head to wake up from sattoo induced sleepz

It is a broader pkg IA. Wait for people to digest this first.

Any non-US platform gives one a much more broader freedom of movement.

This will also see Pak & Chinese tech grow.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

It is a broader pkg IA. Wait for people to digest this first.

Any non-US platform gives one a much more broader freedom of movement.

This will also see Pak & Chinese tech grow.

Makes logical sense... we need to see it in broader SCO context as well. It is a much neglected aspect, if you know what I mean.

Afg quagmire... and post exit management, shaping and reshaping of the region is a complex equation.

As I have always said.. Pakistan is The Heartland....

Given the inter-operational needs, rappid deployment and quick refurbishments of the emerging scenarios... I can understand that Sino-Pak-Rus axis have interlinked, complimentary interests.. so certain weapon systems become essential.

Hopefully, PAF had a peak/training... climatisation with the PLAAF Su35s... to hit the ground running so to speak...if/when these birds come to PAF...

Anyhow, thanks for another set of geo-strategic #KhafeeLeaks

 

[Khafee]

Hopefully, PAF had a peak/training... climatisation with the PLAAF Su35s... to hit the ground running so to speak...if/when these birds come to PAF...

Lets assume that PAF has zero experience in the PLAAF Su-35's.
Can the PAF experience with the J11 / J15 /J16 be denied?
In terms of flying the Su-35 is not phenomenally different, marginally different at best.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Lets assume that PAF has zero experience in the PLAAF Su-35's.
Can the PAF experience with the J11 / J15 /J16 be denied?
In terms of flying the Su-35 is not phenomenally different, marginally different at best.

Well, put... as I suspected.

Anyhow, what need to see all such developments in broader strategic context.... as you know my position... as a non-military person... I see all weapon systems as policy instruements... their qualities or applications are better left to Professional like yourself.

From policy stand point... I do see emergence of active SCO with Sino-Pak-Rus as leading Actors in shapping the region... CPEC is not just a road or some powerplants... afterall!

I would just like to see local production of future generations of systems within Pakistan. Period.

 

[TsAr]

Remember that China bought 24 SU-35 even when they could have done without it. The reason why they got it was for R&D purposes.

 

[Zeeman]

Yes and I think Chinese deal was stuck for years because they only wanted to buy few airframes just to peak into and copy what they wanted. Russians refused .
It took a while before deal was made .

 

[AliYusuf]

Yes and I think Chinese deal was stuck for years because they only wanted to buy few airframes just to peak into and copy what they wanted. Russians refused .
It took a while before deal was made .

The disagreement, in my opinion, was not about china wanting to peek into and copy, China even threatened to renege on the deal altogether if Russia didn't agree to reduce the number of platforms that Russia was trying to convince China to buy. Russia needed the sale. In the end China agreed to buy only 24. The J-20 was already in full production when the Su-35 deal went thru.

 

[Khafee]

The disagreement, in my opinion, was not about china wanting to peek into and copy, China even threatened to renege on the deal altogether if Russia didn't agree to the cut in the number of platforms Russia was trying to convince China to buy. Russia needed the sale. In the end China agreed to buy only 24. The J-20 was already in full production when the Su-35 deal went thru.

You have an eye for detail, so in your opinion, why the Su-35 when J-20 was about to be delivered?

 

[TsAr]

The disagreement, in my opinion, was not about china wanting to peek into and copy, China even threatened to renege on the deal altogether if Russia didn't agree to reduce the number of platforms that Russia was trying to convince China to buy. Russia needed the sale. In the end China agreed to buy only 24. The J-20 was already in full production when the Su-35 deal went thru.

Rosoboronexport did not want to sell less then 50 units to cover cost as they were afraid that eventually China would clone these fighters. They reluctantly agreed only after Putin stepped in. The whole point is that you can always learn something new. Chinese airforce does not operate Jf-17 but that was still a learning curve from them.

 

[Khafee]

Rosoboronexport did not want to sell less then 50 units to cover cost as they were afraid that eventually China would clone these fighters. They reluctantly agreed only after Putin stepped in. The whole point is that you can always learn something new. Chinese airforce does not operate Jf-17 but that was still a learning curve from them.

PLAAF had some of their SOP's fine tuned by PAF. There is a lot PAF did for them.

 

[TsAr]

PLAAF had some of their SOP's fine tuned by PAF. There is a lot PAF did for them.

PLAAF was a mess operationally. PAF helped them into getting in shape. The general assertion in that Pakistan has got everything from China , which is wrong. China has learned a lot from Pakistan also. Both the countries have gained a lot from each other experiences.

 

[PewPew]

PLAAF was a mess operationally. PAF helped them into getting in shape. The general assertion in that Pakistan has got everything from China , which is wrong. China has learned a lot from Pakistan also. Both the countries have gained a lot from each other experiences.

This might be controversial, but we need to layoff the 'love' for China, Turkey, and anyone else. It's one thing to appreciate support from a policy standpoint, but quite another to speak of brotherhood and the like. We should look for favourable projects, not friends.

 

[TsAr]

This might be controversial, but we need to layoff the 'love' for China, Turkey, and anyone else. It's one thing to appreciate support from a policy standpoint, but quite another to speak of brotherhood and the like. We should look for favourable projects, not friends.

I have always believed that when in comes to world politics there are no friends or brothers. You have common interests.

 

[AliYusuf]

You have an eye for detail, so in your opinion, why the Su-35 when J-20 was about to be delivered?

It could have been because they may have wanted to see how far the Russians have progressed vis-a-vis their previous Sukhois (which the PLAAF operated) and where did China's own current expertise lie in comparison.

They definitely could have wanted a look into any one of the following ...

• Super Maneuverability control techs
• Saturn AL-41F1S afterburning TVC turbofan engines
• OLS-35 infra-red search and track
• L175M Khibiny-M electronic countermeasures

But probably because, they did not want to leave Russia without a deal when the Russian's were in need of it at that time.