SAC’s YF-23 counterpart, J-20’s lost rival design “Snow Owl” revealed

[TomCat]

One random pic of a decade old design that lost the competition a decade ago and so many theories of buying the design, cooperation with XYZ, and back doors and blah blah blah

Previous ACM specifically said that AZM will be an "Indigenous" design.

That “Indigenous” isn’t possible in a decade while PAF wants to fly it before a decade.

Plus, the mentality of PAF is to save TIME as well as Money, Why would they go for a total clean sheet by themselves when Chinese with experience and possible worked out Premature designs are available.

 

[TomCat]

Just some thoughts :
To me word FC means combined fighter development.
FC1 ( PAC??+CAC??) ( 1 RD 93MA??)
FC 31 ( PAC??+SAC??) ( 2 RD 93MA??)

We went for FC1( light weight, our ??requirement)
Chinese ??went for J10 ( medium weight, their requirement)

Now if we make a double engine J10 stealthy fighter it is J20. ( same engines) but heavy weight category.

Make a FC1 double engine it will become FC 31 ( same engine) but medium weight category.

Now there are talks of 400 RD 93 MA engines. ( 200 FC-31 fighters).
As for I remember once ma'am messiach said, if Russians ?? agree to engine development, Azm is on track.

As we all know there are 3 prototypes of FC-31.
V1= tech demonstrator
V2= Air force version/ PAF?
V3= Double engine, stealthy naval version.

Chinese did not buy FC1 so the designation remained as it is i.e FC1.
Chinese buying FC 31, designation is changing to J31 / J35?
Logically it makes sense because it will decrease the financial burden between two forces. ( is there any other country involved in project? We don't know that but chances are less likely).

Will Chinese be using same engines ( RD 93 MA)? If no, we will most likely go for 100 FC-31 (200 engines), other 200 engines will be used in different blocks of FC1.
If yes, then there is split between two forces.

Now the indigenous part:
Most likely there will be Co-production as in FC1 case. ( percentage basis) or perhaps we get the whole production line?
AESA radar
BVRAAM
WVRAAM
HMD/S?
May be some other systems ( I don't have the required knowledge).

In medicine many a times more knowledgeable physicians go for difficult diagnosis, leaving a simple diagnosis in front of them.

@Mastankhan ( sir if u have time to write without dashes, I can't comprehend them).
@Khafee ( sir if u can share something in this regard if non confidential).
@TomCat @Pakhtoon yum @Gripen9
Some silly ? thoughts, you people can ignore it as well cz I don't have technical knowledge about it.

FC = Fighter China

 

[TomCat]

Just some thoughts :
To me word FC means combined fighter development.
FC1 ( PAC??+CAC??) ( 1 RD 93MA??)
FC 31 ( PAC??+SAC??) ( 2 RD 93MA??)

We went for FC1( light weight, our ??requirement)
Chinese ??went for J10 ( medium weight, their requirement)

Now if we make a double engine J10 stealthy fighter it is J20. ( same engines) but heavy weight category.

Make a FC1 double engine it will become FC 31 ( same engine) but medium weight category.

Now there are talks of 400 RD 93 MA engines. ( 200 FC-31 fighters).
As for I remember once ma'am messiach said, if Russians ?? agree to engine development, Azm is on track.

As we all know there are 3 prototypes of FC-31.
V1= tech demonstrator
V2= Air force version/ PAF?
V3= Double engine, stealthy naval version.

Chinese did not buy FC1 so the designation remained as it is i.e FC1.
Chinese buying FC 31, designation is changing to J31 / J35?
Logically it makes sense because it will decrease the financial burden between two forces. ( is there any other country involved in project? We don't know that but chances are less likely).

Will Chinese be using same engines ( RD 93 MA)? If no, we will most likely go for 100 FC-31 (200 engines), other 200 engines will be used in different blocks of FC1.
If yes, then there is split between two forces.

Now the indigenous part:
Most likely there will be Co-production as in FC1 case. ( percentage basis) or perhaps we get the whole production line?
AESA radar
BVRAAM
WVRAAM
HMD/S?
May be some other systems ( I don't have the required knowledge).

In medicine many a times more knowledgeable physicians go for difficult diagnosis, leaving a simple diagnosis in front of them.

@Mastankhan ( sir if u have time to write without dashes, I can't comprehend them).
@Khafee ( sir if u can share something in this regard if non confidential).
@TomCat @Pakhtoon yum @Gripen9
Some silly ? thoughts, you people can ignore it as well cz I don't have technical knowledge about it.

As for the indigenous part, Logically PAF would target indigenous or JV Avionics, Research or join research.

PAC doesn't have an impressive avionics catalogue, They seem too outdated. This is where PAC should focus on.
Not to forget, APF is already busy Most probably making goodies to be used with Thunders and Other future fighters

 

[Thorough Pro]

Why is it impossible?
ACM talked about indigenous "design", not indigenous "manufacturing".
As an example, iPhone is an indigenous design of Apple USA but manufactured in China.

That “Indigenous” isn’t possible in a decade while PAF wants to fly it before a decade.

Plus, the mentality of PAF is to save TIME as well as Money, Why would they go for a total clean sheet by themselves when Chinese with experience and possible worked out Premature designs are available.

 

[Thorough Pro]

You are wrong in your assumption about PAF mentality.
If they were thinking of time and cost-saving they would have just acquired J-31 not invested millions in setting up Air university, Advanced research labs, and the whole aviation city/complex.

The AZM project is not just about acquiring a 5th Gen fighter, its more about training our own people, developing the skillset and expertise and setting up our own infrastructure. 5th gen fighter is just the beginning, aviation innovation is not going to stop there. If we won't do what the AZM project is intended for, in next 30 years we won't be able to buy any new fighter even from China because the new tech in the 6th and 7th gen fighters would be astronomically more expensive and Pakistan would still be ruled by corrupt offsprings of Bhuttos and Shareefs.

That “Indigenous” isn’t possible in a decade while PAF wants to fly it before a decade.

Plus, the mentality of PAF is to save TIME as well as Money, Why would they go for a total clean sheet by themselves when Chinese with experience and possible worked out Premature designs are available.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Just some thoughts :
To me word FC means combined fighter development.
FC1 ( PAC??+CAC??) ( 1 RD 93MA??)
FC 31 ( PAC??+SAC??) ( 2 RD 93MA??)

We went for FC1( light weight, our ??requirement)
Chinese ??went for J10 ( medium weight, their requirement)

Now if we make a double engine J10 stealthy fighter it is J20. ( same engines) but heavy weight category.

Make a FC1 double engine it will become FC 31 ( same engine) but medium weight category.

Now there are talks of 400 RD 93 MA engines. ( 200 FC-31 fighters).
As for I remember once ma'am messiach said, if Russians ?? agree to engine development, Azm is on track.

As we all know there are 3 prototypes of FC-31.
V1= tech demonstrator
V2= Air force version/ PAF?
V3= Double engine, stealthy naval version.

Chinese did not buy FC1 so the designation remained as it is i.e FC1.
Chinese buying FC 31, designation is changing to J31 / J35?
Logically it makes sense because it will decrease the financial burden between two forces. ( is there any other country involved in project? We don't know that but chances are less likely).

Will Chinese be using same engines ( RD 93 MA)? If no, we will most likely go for 100 FC-31 (200 engines), other 200 engines will be used in different blocks of FC1.
If yes, then there is split between two forces.

Now the indigenous part:
Most likely there will be Co-production as in FC1 case. ( percentage basis) or perhaps we get the whole production line?
AESA radar
BVRAAM
WVRAAM
HMD/S?
May be some other systems ( I don't have the required knowledge).

In medicine many a times more knowledgeable physicians go for difficult diagnosis, leaving a simple diagnosis in front of them.

@Mastankhan ( sir if u have time to write without dashes, I can't comprehend them).
@Khafee ( sir if u can share something in this regard if non confidential).
@TomCat @Pakhtoon yum @Gripen9
Some silly ? thoughts, you people can ignore it as well cz I don't have technical knowledge about it.

Well actually FC stands for "fighter china"
FC1 = fighter china 1
They dont call it JF-17 thunder they call it fierce dragon.

Otherwise I find their notation very confusing. Either stick with FC or J

 

[Safri167]

Well actually FC stands for "fighter china"
FC1 = fighter china 1
They dont call it JF-17 thunder they call it fierce dragon.

Otherwise I find their notation very confusing. Either stick with FC or J

Brother they don't call every fighter FC.
Like FC 11, FC 10?

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Brother they don't call every fighter FC.
Like FC 11, FC 10?

Which is confusing

 

[Aadi]

One random pic of a decade old design that lost the competition a decade ago and so many theories of buying the design, cooperation with XYZ, and back doors and blah blah blah

Previous ACM specifically said that AZM will be an "Indigenous" design.

people will keep saying whatever comes to their mind about AZM that its indigenous and blah blah blah... but problem is we cant even build a 4th gen fighter on our own how is it possible to build fifth gen fighter without having an industrial base and limited resources.
P.S; im no defense expert but im not dumb either.

 

[War Historian]

@AliYusuf Could you kindly share the AZM model pic here that was surfacing on the net some months ago in which Mujahid Anwar is talking to someone and AZM is on the center table

That an image i saw,few months ago about the AZM 5th gen jet. Thanks

 

[TomCat]

That an image i saw,few months ago about the AZM 5th gen jet. ThanksView attachment 15090

Fanmade

 

[TomCat]

You are wrong in your assumption about PAF mentality.
If they were thinking of time and cost-saving they would have just acquired J-31 not invested millions in setting up Air university, Advanced research labs, and the whole aviation city/complex.

The AZM project is not just about acquiring a 5th Gen fighter, its more about training our own people, developing the skillset and expertise and setting up our own infrastructure. 5th gen fighter is just the beginning, aviation innovation is not going to stop there. If we won't do what the AZM project is intended for, in next 30 years we won't be able to buy any new fighter even from China because the new tech in the 6th and 7th gen fighters would be astronomically more expensive and Pakistan would still be ruled by corrupt offsprings of Bhuttos and Shareefs.

Acquiring FC-31 doesn’t give us training, Developing AZM alongside a bit of Chinese help gives us many advantages, Like you said, We get experience and train a new gen of engineers.

Chinese act as a catalyst, They have some Design sheets which were never implemented, Could be used, Thus saving time. Plus, China has infrastructure ready to test and develop a Fighter, PAC falls short heavily on that.

 

[TomCat]

Why is it impossible?
ACM talked about indigenous "design", not indigenous "manufacturing".
As an example, iPhone is an indigenous design of Apple USA but manufactured in China.

Kindly re-read.
I said “Impossible in a decade”

 

[Safri167]

Which is confusing

Give me an example of FC, other than FC1 and FC 31?
FC 20 is J10 CE, they don't call it FC.

 

[Safri167]

Acquiring FC-31 doesn’t give us training,

What if we were/are part of the project?