Acquisition of J-15 for PAF- Air Superiority & Deep Strike Platfrom

[Armchair]

STOVL maybe a domain that PAF will have to look into in future. If not now then maybe 50 years ahead. Harrier was not conceived solely as a naval jet but it was also expected to take off from unprepared landing zones when all the air strips will be taken out by Soviets in Cold war era. This was one of the reasons it was armed with AGM-65 (non navalised version) to destroy enemy armor, bridges etc.

STOVL stands for Short Takeoff Vertical Landing. STOL is Short Takeoff and Landing. VTOL is Vertical takeoff and vertical landing.

STOL and rough field performance is what you need in a decentralized ground basing strategy for fighters / ground attack aircraft.

Regarding why the STOVL requirement was one of the key problem that caused the F-35 problems: https://www.cbc.ca/fifth/blog/extended-interview-pierre-sprey

 

[Armchair]

Customisation has its limits too, the amount of freedom that PAF gets with JF-17 and in future Azm, it will not be get the same amount of freedom with J-15

Yes, but the JF-17 isn't competing with the J-15, they fit different requirements and roles. So the point is moot in comparing customization. And the Azm sadly is still a paper aeroplane whose role and capability is still in a mist. I would have much preferred an Azm in 2026 rather one two decades later. This seems to be a case of overambition and over-confidence on the part of the PAF.

 

[Armchair]

PN's aim is to cripple IN naval vessels and submarines and effectively stop IN from creating a blockade for PN. Its important to take out targets with in range before moving on to targets in south of India. IN armada standing in Arabian sea is what PN needs to tackle, its militarily not feasible to ignore imminent threat and leap frog towards south of India.

How will you even take care of you SLOCs forget doing anything else? Or has Pakistan resolved to live under an Indian blockade? How will you stop an Indian blockade with JF-17s or the completely undermatched PN surface fleet? A cursory look at the SLOCs on a map will clear things up - I had hoped you would do that exercise I spoke of so we could have a more interesting conversation.

 

[Armchair]

Truthfully, if JF-17 couldn't have maintained SLOCs, it wouldn't have been positioned in Karachi. JF-17 is not a show piece that will give good vibes to PN. JF-17 has been inducted in 2nd Squadron for a reason, so are the Air refuelers, AWACS and other PN MR aircrafts. In some thread of PDF, i calculated ranges of F-16 and JF-17 for different strike missions heading towards Mumbai, based on the hard work already conducted by some other member. State of affairs are truly not that gloomy. PAF has to support PN in its Ops, which weapon (aircraft or sub or ship) has to reach and strike where has to be decided in the war room. We can only speculate on the data provided as open source.

Thanks for this - I'm curious how you would cover your SLOCs with the JF-17... would you be so kind as to elaborate. I see you are talking about using air refuelers, how many can be assigned to the naval war and how will you protect them? How many JFTs would be assigned to protect them and at what distance from the coast will you operate the refuelers?

How many JF-17s will be able to carry anti-ship missiles, how far away, and what kind of time on station will they have? Same for a2a loadout - how much time on station? Would also appreciate if you can bring in the number of aircraft India would have to bear down on the JFTs, far from Pak's coastline, in a scenario where India is blocking you SLOCs.

Would love to get your assessment. I personally feel it is beyond what is possible, let alone practically feasible.

 

[Armchair]

Truthfully, if JF-17 couldn't have maintained SLOCs, it wouldn't have been positioned in Karachi.

To simplify - at the base level, you want to protect your shores from the enemy ships and aircraft, and provide top cover to ships along your coast. This is what the JF-17s can do realistically. This is a mission very different from another mission - protecting you SLOCs.

JF-17s being stationed in Karachi is not evidence that Pakistan can protect her SLOCs. It can equally be reasoned (more convincingly actually) that they are protecting Pakistan's coast.

 

[Armchair]

f the size of PN and IN would be compared at any stage of era after independence, the disparity has been massive, this is nothing new. PN will never be able to match IN in any accord, be it subs or ships or aircraft. This is a challenge that PN faces and has been trained while provided with relative armament to counter IN ships and subs. The induction of different kinds or missiles, aircrafts and subs has taken place for the same reason. No miracle weapon but training and then equipment is what wins the day. The capability of PAF can be seen as of 27th Feb and the capability of PN can be seen as how it forced the IN sub to surface and come in cross hairs of PN. Both instances have seen use of EW and other surveillance and detection methods.

Assessments still has to be grounded in reality. One cannot say that a force 7 times larger than itself, that successfully in the last war, not only enforced a blockade, but did major damage of Pakistan's port, can somehow be thwarted by a small force "and some JF-17s". I personally feel this view is patriotic but not realistic.

The much more interesting discussion would have been understanding that now with the CPEC, China needs to ensure India cannot shut down their strategic supply line through Gwadar by cutting SLOCs. That PN can and is benefiting from this Chinese interest, and expanding its fleet and capabilities because of this concern.

 

[Safri167]

J-15 fighters make its debut operational mission on Chinese newest aircraft carrier

The largest English portal in China has released some new photos showed that J-15 fighter jets have started take-off and landing training on aircraft carrier CNS Shandong. The J-15s, also know as Flying Shark fighters, make its debut operational mission on the second aircraft carrier and the...

defence-blog.com

 

[TsAr]

Rafale coming in next month, 4 in total going to land in Ambala on 27th July. Use your imagination jawano, India ko jawab daina ha keh nai

 

[Sayad]

Rafale coming in next month, 4 in total going to land in Ambala on 27th July. Use your imagination jawano, India ko jawab daina ha keh nai

Now this is how procurement should be open, official, loud and clear.... Yaha tou Sara din duao ma guzar jata h k ya Allah bhaij de lolz

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Now this is how procurement should be open, official, loud and clear.... Yaha tou Sara din duao ma guzar jata h k ya Allah bhaij de lolz

What's "bhaij"?

 

[Sayad]

What's "bhaij"?

40 50 j15s.... Bhaij de not baich de

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

40 50 j15s.... Bhaij de not baich de

To send? My urdu isnt great.

 

[Gripen9]

To send? My urdu isnt great.

Yes.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Yes.

Thanks

 

[Signalian]

Assessments still has to be grounded in reality. One cannot say that a force 7 times larger than itself, that successfully in the last war, not only enforced a blockade, but did major damage of Pakistan's port, can somehow be thwarted by a small force "and some JF-17s". I personally feel this view is patriotic but not realistic.

The much more interesting discussion would have been understanding that now with the CPEC, China needs to ensure India cannot shut down their strategic supply line through Gwadar by cutting SLOCs. That PN can and is benefiting from this Chinese interest, and expanding its fleet and capabilities because of this concern.

Do you know why i gave you 2 real life examples in the last sentence ?
To show that im talking above the scale of purely patriotism. This is something i dont expect you to understand because all you can see is equipment and related capability - nothing beyond that. There are methodologies developed based on doctrines how to engage a bigger force. 1971 is long gone, i could have mentioned 1965 also but thats long gone too. I gave you recent example of capabilities of PN.