Acquisition of J-15 for PAF- Air Superiority & Deep Strike Platfrom

[Khafee]

Do you know why i gave you 2 real life examples in the last sentence ?
To show that im talking above the scale of purely patriotism. This is something i dont expect you to understand because all you can see is equipment and related capability - nothing beyond that. There are methodologies developed based on doctrines how to engage a bigger force. 1971 is long gone, i could have mentioned 1965 also but thats long gone too. I gave you recent example of capabilities of PN.

Pls take your sarcasm down a notch. The exposure you've had, and do, is something 99.99% of people dont.

He is a very logical and learned poster, and sometimes he avoids stating the obvious, for security reasons.

In my personal opinion, he is one of the best civis out there.

Now coming to "equipment and related capability", pls try and understand, that IN planners are surely aware that even in its current state PN can give them, more than a bloody nose. Unfortunately, the dumb masses are not aware of this, and are exploited by even dumber politicians. THIS creates quite an issue, hence why having "equipment and related capability", helps immensely. Sadly, despite their military insignificance, Optics do matter.

Note: Before people go of on a tangent and start screaming, that H/w is not bought for Optics. Ofcourse NOT! But can you deny the Optics they bring with them? This is why, it is important to have good PR depts that highlight the capabilities of eqpt and personnel.

 

[Signalian]

Pls take your sarcasm down a notch. The exposure you've had, and do, is something 99.99% of people dont.

He is a very logical and learned poster, and sometimes he avoids stating the obvious, for security reasons.

In my personal opinion, he is one of the best civis out there.

Now coming to "equipment and related capability", pls try and understand, that IN planners are surely aware that even in its current state PN can give more than a bloody nose. Unfortunately, the dumb masses are not aware of this, and are exploited by even dumber politicians. THIS creates quite an issue, hence why having "equipment and related capability", helps immensely. Sadly, despite their military insignificance, Optics do matter.

Note: Before people go of on a tangent and start screaming, that H/w is not bought for Optics. Ofcourse NOT! But can you deny the Optics they bring with them? This si why it is important to have good PR depts as well that highlight the capabilities of eqpt and personnel.

I was not sarcastic, it may have come out that way but it wasn't like that. Being related to forces helps in thinking from their perspective. He will analyse equipment and its capability based on his info. The internet and youtube videos are full of analysis of weapons and equipment. I can start analysis of UAE Army but i will be analysing Leclerc, G-6 etc based on what i find on internet or other sources, unless i dig deep and start having convos with professionals who have served in UAE forces. Then i will be able to gather why the things are seem different while the obvious seems totally opposite. The issue of Pakistan Navy is just like that. If the sailors are told day and night that enemy has 10 mores weaponry and can sink the PN in 5 minutes, they will never stand up and fight. At many places on paper, India is a tiger but then a paper tiger.

On the contrary to what you posted and what i said above, take the case of 27th feb 2019. Every analysis on internet shows that SU30 MKI will eat up JF-17 while Mirages are decades old and cant even fly to strike. The F-16s cannot be used in combat so PAF has nothing to defend itself if IAF unleashes 200+ SU30 MKIs backed by Mig-29s and Mirage2000s. But whether somebody has any military background or not - its obvious that analysis just based on weapons/equipment and their capability sometimes cannot come out correctly in real scenarios.

You will again see similar case when IAF Rafale will be talked about. I can float the point here, J-15 finds itself in PAF ranks and now Rafale has a formidable contender, right ? Lots to discuss on it. But for a second think, JF-17 vs Rafale, same old analysis that Rafale will always come on top because it has xyz which JF-17 doesn't have.

I don't post based on "Patriotism" for a weapon/equipment or its capability. Looking at its ins and outs reveals many things but the way its deployed in combat is what matters.

 

[Armchair]

I was not sarcastic, it may have come out that way but it wasn't like that. Being related to forces helps in thinking from their perspective. He will analyse equipment and its capability based on his info. The internet and youtube videos are full of analysis of weapons and equipment. I can start analysis of UAE Army but i will be analysing Leclerc, G-6 etc based on what i find on internet or other sources, unless i dig deep and start having convos with professionals who have served in UAE forces. Then i will be able to gather why the things are seem different while the obvious seems totally opposite. The issue of Pakistan Navy is just like that. If the sailors are told day and night that enemy has 10 mores weaponry and can sink the PN in 5 minutes, they will never stand up and fight. At many places on paper, India is a tiger but then a paper tiger.

On the contrary to what you posted and what i said above, take the case of 27th feb 2019. Every analysis on internet shows that SU30 MKI will eat up JF-17 while Mirages are decades old and cant even fly to strike. The F-16s cannot be used in combat so PAF has nothing to defend itself if IAF unleashes 200+ SU30 MKIs backed by Mig-29s and Mirage2000s. But whether somebody has any military background or not - its obvious that analysis just based on weapons/equipment and their capability sometimes cannot come out correctly in real scenarios.

You will again see similar case when IAF Rafale will be talked about. I can float the point here, J-15 finds itself in PAF ranks and now Rafale has a formidable contender, right ? Lots to discuss on it. But for a second think, JF-17 vs Rafale, same old analysis that Rafale will always come on top because it has xyz which JF-17 doesn't have.

I don't post based on "Patriotism" for a weapon/equipment or its capability. Looking at its ins and outs reveals many things but the way its deployed in combat is what matters.

I am on record in multiple places saying the JF-17 can take on the MKI as far back as a decade ago. I was derided for it, trolled for it, but I think my analysis was right. About the Rafale, it is a potent weapon but not a wunder weapon. The JF-17 is, from an avionics point of view, on par in the Block 3 format.

PAF vs IAF is a different ballgame than PA vs IA. And PN vs IN is a different ballgame as well. PAF is very close in combat capability to the IAF. PN is the weakest service, comparatively.

If jazba, patriotism, professionalism was such a disparity - Pak would have won all wars. I think military planning has to be more dispassionate and clinical.

I agree, PN can give a bloody nose to IN, but I also believe if war broke out today, IN would win. They have the capacity to ensure a blockade. I understand we disagree, perhaps we can agree to disagree.

 

[TomCat]

I am on record in multiple places saying the JF-17 can take on the MKI as far back as a decade ago. I was derided for it, trolled for it, but I think my analysis was right. About the Rafale, it is a potent weapon but not a wunder weapon. The JF-17 is, from an avionics point of view, on par in the Block 3 format.

PAF vs IAF is a different ballgame than PA vs IA. And PN vs IN is a different ballgame as well. PAF is very close in combat capability to the IAF. PN is the weakest service, comparatively.

If jazba, patriotism, professionalism was such a disparity - Pak would have won all wars. I think military planning has to be more dispassionate and clinical.

I agree, PN can give a bloody nose to IN, but I also believe if war broke out today, IN would win. They have the capacity to ensure a blockade. I understand we disagree, perhaps we can agree to disagree.

Unless PN invests immediately in Destroyers and more subs as well as Anti Sub warfare and Moderate but Highly Dangerous fleet of Flankers, To give the required offensive punch from the air that our sub surface fleet lacks

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Any possible dates or pictures of J-15 with Pakistani Flag

 

[Khafee]

I don't post based on "Patriotism" for a weapon/equipment or its capability.

Even then, are you privy to what men in uniform are ?

I say this, based on your intial reaction to a flanker variant's inevitable induction.

 

[Khafee]

I am on record in multiple places saying the JF-17 can take on the MKI as far back as a decade ago. I was derided for it, trolled for it, but I think my analysis was right. About the Rafale, it is a potent weapon but not a wunder weapon. The JF-17 is, from an avionics point of view, on par in the Block 3 format.

PAF vs IAF is a different ballgame than PA vs IA. And PN vs IN is a different ballgame as well. PAF is very close in combat capability to the IAF. PN is the weakest service, comparatively.

If jazba, patriotism, professionalism was such a disparity - Pak would have won all wars. I think military planning has to be more dispassionate and clinical.

I agree, PN can give a bloody nose to IN, but I also believe if war broke out today, IN would win. They have the capacity to ensure a blockade. I understand we disagree, perhaps we can agree to disagree.

Agree on all points, except the last. PN is no longer the weakest chink of the armour. Pls look at last year's first half, PLAN deployment, in the Arabian Sea.

 

[Zulu]

Not anyone fault in last few years PN went for lot of things and very quietly and they will reveal only when the time comes

Agree on all points, except the last. PN is no longer the weakest chink of the armour. Pls look at last year's, first half deployment, of PLAN in the Arabian Sea.

 

[Khafee]

Unless PN invests immediately in Destroyers and more subs as well as Anti Sub warfare and Moderate but Highly Dangerous fleet of Flankers, To give the required offensive punch from the air that our sub surface fleet lacks

Eventually Destroyers will come too, as well as a decent number of fighter jets. What I am waiting for, is the launch of PN's offensive Air Arm IA.

 

[War Historian]

Eventually Destroyers will come too, as well as a decent number of fighter jets. What I am waiting for, is the launch of PN's offensive Air Arm IA.
.

Sir @Khafee offensive air arm of PN will gave the heart attack to IN. And the beast J-15 will kill all their ambitions against Pak State

 

[capricorn5192]

Eventually Destroyers will come too, as well as a decent number of fighter jets. What I am waiting for, is the launch of PN's offensive Air Arm IA.

Isn't induction of J-15s a step towards the same

 

[Khafee]

Isn't induction of J-15s a step towards the same

Assets will be shared with PAF.

IA we will see, a separate independent offensive Aviation arm. A mix of single and twin heavies, 150 all in. Within a decade.

The only question here is: Before, or After, AZM's launch.

 

[Khafee]

Sir @Khafee offensive air arm of PN will gave the heart attack to IN. And the beast J-15 will kill all their ambitions against Pak State

IA that is the plan, kill the snake before it raises its head.

 

[Safri167]

Assets will be shared with PAF.

IA we will see, a separate independent offensive Aviation arm. A mix of single and twin heavies, 150 all in. Within a decade.

The only question here is: Before, or After, AZM's launch.

Sir,
What you are suggesting, it doesn't look like we are preparing for IN/ IAF.
J15, j10, Jf 17, F16, mirages, F7s and most importantly AZM, do we have a bigger game in perception?
I apologize in advance if it's off topic.

 

[Armchair]

Agree on all points, except the last. PN is no longer the weakest chink of the armour. Pls look at last year's first half, PLAN deployment, in the Arabian Sea.

Interesting. Let me play well, I hate the term but, a devil's advocate. USN effectively counters PLAN in Indian Ocean and calls for a ceasefire between India and Pakistan. The goras do what they did in Bosnia and Libya - call to "boycott both sides" when actually they are helping one side. PLAN stays out of the war or risks being knocked out in the Indian Ocean.

IN blockade ensures Chinese CPEC plan has effectively been neutralized. China back to the dilemma at the Straits of Malacca.