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I.R.A

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But to a Zoroastrian, you are Arab first, before being Muslim.


Wrong doc ......... I am an enemy a threat first, an enemy you should fear and be watchful of (:-) ........ I am huge fan and strong follower of the people who brought your great empire to its knees and your king to his senses. Have you forgotten all that they did to your people? We are friends who would clash anytime ....... I am not your average Muslim friend, I have my views very clear about what your forefathers did to avenge their humiliation ~^~
 

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Wrong doc ......... I am an enemy a threat first, an enemy you should fear and be watchful of (:-) ........ I am huge fan and strong follower of the people who brought your great empire to its knees and your king to his senses. Have you forgotten all that they did to your people? We are friends who would clash anytime ....... I am not your average Muslim friend, I have my views very clear about what your forefathers did to avenge their humiliation ~^~

See I, humiliation and military defeats are part and parcel of life. Ask any soldier.

If you live by the sword, eventually one day you will die by the sword.

But the hope remains in the form of your sons.

And their sons.

Blood runs its course.

And history is never forgotten.


Cheers, Doc
 

I.R.A

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If only Muslim leaders of that time were permitted to keep bodyguards and distance themselves from the common people ...... which Islam doesn't allow .......... and doc if it was a defeat I won't be here chit chatting with you. Things will turn back to being pure again, its promised and it is bound to happen ..... if not these people some better people will replace them. Islam is not bound by nationalities, boundaries, blood lines ........ its a message that would attract any reasonable thinking logical mind ..... I can guarantee you that.
 

vsdoc

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If only Muslim leaders of that time were permitted to keep bodyguards and distance themselves from the common people ...... which Islam doesn't allow .......... and doc if it was a defeat I won't be here chit chatting with you. Things will turn back to being pure again, its promised and it is bound to happen ..... if not these people some better people will replace them. Islam is not bound by nationalities, boundaries, blood lines ........ its a message that would attract any reasonable thinking logical mind ..... I can guarantee you that.

I do not envy Islam the place it found itself in.

In the Persians it found its most formidable sword arm. Hell, India was Islamized by them! Not the Arabs who raided and retreated.

In the Persians Islam also found its greatest accomplishments in literature, art, poetry, philosophy, architecture.

Islam's "golden age" was nothing but a continuum of the Persian golden age. Now under the crescent banner.

So Islam has really no feet to blame the Persians. Coz Islam and the Muslim world would be nowhere what it is today without what the Persian race brought to it and with them.

But yes, you and me also know what else was sown in those days. And what has now grown and is about to bear fruit.

Cheers, Doc
 
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I.R.A

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I do not envy Islam the place it found itself in.

In the Persians it found its most formidable sword arm. Hell, India was Islamized by them! Not the Arabs who raided and retreated.

In the Persians Islam also found its greatest accomplishments in literature, art, poetry, philosophy, architecture.

Islam's "golden age" was nothing but a continuum of the Persian golden age. Now under the crescent banner.

So Islam has really no feet to blame the Persians. Coz Islam and the Muslim world would be nowhere what it is today without what the Persian race brought to it and with them.


Doc Arabs themselves were great poets, Caliph Umer under whose Caliphate Muslim Army entered Persia was a poet himself. And those people were fairly liberal and open minded and had thinking brains, their strategies were the reason that Romans and Persians were defeated simultaneously, the two super powers of their times. I don't deny that Persians weren't smart and civilised ...... I only ask a simple question, how come they achieved all this which you say they achieved after converting to Islam? What changed? These were same people no?


But yes, you and me also know what else was down in those days. And what has now grown and is about to bear fruit.

The time for fruit is over doc ....... it's about time to being normal again and drop the fairy tales as part of faith. Many people went Atheist believing these fairy tales and not these fair tales not making any sense to them ..... but fortunately they found a reasonable person to separate fairy tales from truth for them and make them understand Islam easier.
 

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Doc Arabs themselves were great poets, Caliph Umer under whose Caliphate Muslim Army entered Persia was a poet himself. And those people were fairly liberal and open minded and had thinking brains, their strategies were the reason that Romans and Persians were defeated simultaneously, the two super powers of their times. I don't deny that Persians weren't smart and civilised ...... I only ask a simple question, how come they achieved all this which you say they achieved after converting to Islam? What changed? These were same people no?




The time for fruit is over doc ....... it's about time to being normal again and drop the fairy tales as part of faith. Many people went Atheist believing these fairy tales and not these fair tales not making any sense to them ..... but fortunately they found a reasonable person to separate fairy tales from truth for them and make them understand Islam easier.

Bro still on the phone so Google and links and references to make a point is not possible.

Suffice to say that if you believe that the Persians had their golden age after Islam and before Islam they were simply waiting, fighting and conquering the world, but waiting, then I'm admittedly at a loss for words.

If Persepolis and it's fabled history means nothing.

It either speaks of a monocular vision or lack of proper research.

Either way, I am not here to teach you.

You speak of Zoroastrianism (and Mithraism before it) as fairy tales, and Islam the final rationalistic panacea to all world evils.

Fine again.

The issue here is simple.

I see Islam as the Arabs finally getting the message.

Don't know about finally either, coz there still seems to be some talk of yet another messenger in the firm if a Mahdi .... yet to come. At the head of a black turbaned army.

We'll see.

Suffice to say, we've received the message 8000 years ago, and are still here.

The fire still burns. Both physically and in our hearts.

Not just a a few thousand remaining Parsi hearts, but many million Persian hearts.

For that is and will always be Ahura Mazda's land, and His chosen people.

A few swords from the adjoining desert lands is not going to change that.

Maybe the two of us will see it in our respective lifetime? Who knows!

Ushta te.

Cheers, Doc
 

I.R.A

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You speak of Zoroastrianism (and Mithraism before it) as fairy tales, and Islam the final rationalistic panacea to all world evils.

You are mistaken doc, I am not calling Zoroastrianism as fairy tales ........ I am calling what newly pretending converted Zoroastrians did to conceal Islam's pure message. Your misunderstanding of the Mahdi concept ..... and its mentioning here is an example of the fairy tales that were introduced by those Persians. Please try to understand and learn more about these things and Islam ..... your half knowledge and your insecurity is making it difficult for you to understand me.

I see Islam as the Arabs finally getting the message.

Again you are mistaken ...... can you confirm with surety that Jerusalem of today is actually the real Jerusalem? Ibrahim (Peace be upon him) built Khana E Kabah in Makkah and that was years before Muhammad Peace be upon him was born.

Don't know about finally either, coz there still seems to be some talk of yet another messenger in the firm if a Mahdi .... yet to come. At the head of a black turbaned army.

This Mahdi is a fairy tale that was introduced by your forefathers (with an agenda and mission) ...... a master stroke that left Muslims lazy and waiting for some Messiah to come to their rescue.

Suffice to say, we've received the message 8000 years ago, and are still here.

The fire still burns. Both physically and in our hearts.

Not just a a few thousand remaining Parsi hearts, but many million Persian hearts.

For that is and will always be Ahura Mazda's land, and His chosen people.

A few swords from the adjoining desert lands is not going to change that.

Maybe the two of us will see it in our respective lifetime? Who knows!

Ushta te.

Cheers, Doc


Don't worry we won't / don't forcefully convert anyone ......... you can keep your fire burning I have no problems with it.
 

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Happy new year folks.
 

Scorpion

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@vsdoc I have a few points to share as well but Im not sure if you are going to be able to reply to them. Maybe once the ban is lifted we can continue.
 

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I like malayalam. It has a calming effect hearing something go by so quick. I guess I can understand better than most Tamilians being from the border area + family ancestry etc. Definitely understand it lot better than Kannada and Telugu....and even what passes off as Tamil in Chennai a lot of the time. They retain lot of sanskrit words too, makes it easier in my case these days. I found later in life the numbers I use are essentially malayali rather than pure kaveri + eastern tamil too (nallu, anchu versus nanku/eindu for four/five etc)....definitely its somewhat of a language continuum in many regards.

Lot of great poetry came from the Chera age, back when still west coast Tamil "dialect" there...but many will tell you Malayalam has much longer history....in fact when it diverged from "Tamil" in a standardised definable form, I would date back to much earlier than 300 years. Maybe 700 at least. But very mututally intelligible during that period even, for longest time as a kid I thought the Jnanappana and other nice poems were Tamil. ...because even in Tamil there is much variance in register/dialect etc depending on the particular area of origin.
Ha, economics, literature, Engineering, what else Nilgiri. ' sir... ninkal unmai yaru?':confused:
Tamil is not so easy for a Malayali. There are a lot of Sanskrit loan words in Malayalam I heard. And the original Tamil has a lot of difference. I'm talking about the old Tirukkural. That's all I know.

Forget all that, the Tamil, spoken in the Movie Subramaniapuram is so hard to grasp for me.
 

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Nilgiri

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Ha, economics, literature, Engineering, what else Nilgiri. ' sir... ninkal unmai yaru?':confused:

Just random kovai tam-bram hehe..pallakad ooril nallaa teriyum ;)

Tamil is not so easy for a Malayali.

Yes even I find many Tamil dialects somewhat difficult. They spot me out quick too. The prestige dialect of Tamil centred around kaveri area (and largely worker+trader+farmer community based) is definitely quite different from malayalam, that is what normally gets projected as Tamil on TV/movies etc. But visit border areas of TN with kerala, and you will have it much easier I would think....many know enough malayali too a lot of the time.

And the original Tamil has a lot of difference.

Definitely. The "tooya" (pure) Tamil I find quite hard especially much of the older archaic vocabulary. The grammar at least is more or less the same. Of course there is the two registers just like today for written and spoken....though today there is less and less difference.

I struggle lot when I visit say an old temple and read whats inscribed on the stone...often the older brahmi script is used to begin with by say the Pallavas...

I'm talking about the old Tirukkural. That's all I know.

Ah yes. Have you read and can you understand it? Thats impressive. The old but simple Tamil...one of the nicest forms of the language. In the most cherished moments of very personal Tamil life (like say interaction with little babies, kids, close family members etc), still that very old tamil conjugation is used, many people dont even know they are using it hah (ppl think its just poetic license/rhyme etc)....because I think the best of us that were scholars/linguists/poets popularised and retained it in many of the first things we learn...even as the language changed around it. A link to our far past, kept strong....not many remain in these days at such depth.

Forget all that, the Tamil, spoken in the Movie Subramaniapuram is so hard to grasp for me.

Yah just watch the dubbed version hehe. Tamil movie language can be tough.
 

Nilgiri

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Back to your note. I remember, as a 'furriner', how difficult I found adjusting to quarrelsome, squabbling Madras (as it still was when I shifted), and what a relief it was to listen to the Tamil of Madurai, and to deal with a completely transformed, far more dignified and respectful culture, where you counted for something as long as your manners were in place. It isn't just the variance in register or dialect, there are huge cultural distances, even in as homogenous a state as Tamil Nadu. Some attribute it maliciously to the influence of the immediate northern neighbours.

Haha, yes there are choice words for the Chennai-ites when they come to our part of state and think their "madras kurumbu/rowdigal" can fly.

In Coimbatore we place a high value (traditionally) on being polite and well mannered (and the language of course accomodates that, we use the polite register with strangers+elders, whereas Chennai equivalent uses first name basis register as default which generally we find quite revolting and frankly lazy)...and also we do things somewhat leisurely overall (buying something can get quite conversational on all kind of topics). The weather itself was always quite nice given the calm fragrant air from the Nilgiris. Its all changing for the worse now with way more urbanisation and displacement of the rural and semi rural areas that dotted around the area (my ancestral home used to have forest right next to it where deer used to be when my mom was a small girl, now its city for miles), but there is enough inertia still from before I feel in lot of things still....especially when I see how other parts have changed even more.

Honestly I dont subscribe to the whole andhra to the north thing (and telugus were majority in Madras history for long periods) having much credence for the origins of the Chennai attitude. Its just cosmopolitan city, everything gets mixed, there is not much stoic root culture to ground etc...and people want to say things using one or two words than taking time to structure and be polite etc....again by product of the city commerce etc (I saw same kind of thing regarding the Cantonese in Hong Kong compared to the rural parts of Canton in mainland China).

Many telugu speaking/origin Chennai-ites are known to me, they are very nice people overall and they have contributed much to Chennai area and serve as a strong bridge with another massive and equally significant (and surpasses ours in many ways I feel) southern culture. No real issue with them.
 
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