Chill Republic

[!eon]

And here we have leaders who are Naozobillah above the Khulfah e Rashideen, and cannot be questioned.

Power of media and then today's social media is really mind blowing. How so called educated people can easily be fooled just by beautiful, twisting words.

 

[Khafee]

Sir you left Pakistan a while ago. Situation is pathetic today. PTI has divided the society at so dangerous level that no other group could do that in past.
If Mr. Niazi declares himself a prophet today, many of his followers will believe in his claim.

Anyone who points finger at his corruption is immediately declared "Patwari". Like this gentleman did and if somebody is able to hit them in face then they start crying.

BTW once I was Yuthia too, though I have no right to vote in Pakistan but I remained a part of them in Germany. Now I am again human being .. Alhamdolillah.

You need a change in strategy, @Zeeman is a very level headed open minded chap. You need to politely reason with him. If that doesn't work, "agree to disagree" and walk away. I dont want to see you too figthing it out. This is not what civilized people do.

 

[Khafee]

Power of media and then today's social media is really mind blowing. How so called educated people can easily be fooled just by beautiful, twisting words.

It is only Allah, who can guide us through this mess.

 

[Syed Hammad Ahmed]

Farooq Bhai is Love

 

[Khafee]

Farooq Bhai is Love

 

[!eon]

You need a change in strategy, @Zeeman is a very level headed open minded chap. You need to politely reason with him. If that doesn't work, "agree to disagree" and walk away. I dont want to see you too figthing it out. This is not what civilized people do.

Have you noticed he always starts by declaring me "Patwari". A typical PTI kid mentality. This doesn't leave any thing to discuss in reasonable manner.

I have then always some other tools in pocket . A backup, counter-strike strategy.

 

[Khafee]

Have you noticed he always starts by declaring me "Patwari". A typical PTI kid mentality. This doesn't leave any thing to discuss in reasonable manner.

I have then always some other tools in pocket . A backup, counter-strike strategy.

IA Now he wont. Dont worry. I expect you both to remain civil.

 

[Zeeman]

UnCorruptible man has a very shady history my friend. Can you tell me who is raising his illegitimate daughter and why? I wont go into his string of getting married to the wrong type of women, people can deny it, but it is right there. What I would like to ask about is the misappropriation of funds- Shaukat Khanum Hospital. How did they end up in Dubai? How come his Tier1 supporters are not only corrupt (e.g. Tareen) but also working on another agenda e.g. Firdous A.A. & Zulfi Bukhari (ref.why KSA asked him to be excluded from Tier1 meetings). Believe you me, there is more, but I dont want to spill everything on an open forum. Even those who brought him into power are banging their heads against walls.

For the Love of Allah and His Rasool, dont put any mortal on a pedestal that he is infallible. In politics, nobody is an Angel, and especially in Sub Continental politics.

I would have not indulged in this, if you were not my brother. I hope you will not mind, and look at what I said with a very neutral perspective.

Absolutely and I like healthy debate. You have your own point of view but because you have brought out some serious allegations I would like you to see the other side as well.

During the time of jahiliya and before Islam came people committed unspeakable deeds. There were Sahabas who were the enemies of Islam and did bad things in their own days before they converted to Islam.

Calling out someone for their actions before they found religion and guidance is totally wrong. I am saying this because living in the West since childhood I was exposed to things that I am not very proud of. But once I started following the religion I found peace and stability. I know many super religious people here who had a very disturbing past. Growing up I have known them to indulge in all kinds of wrong and yet today many are people we look upto.

Qaid e Azam was a known drinker and ate pork when in England. IK who was raised and grew up in England among the most elite society was no different. He absolutely lived a life of sin and having a kid with Seeta White was no different. Now pardon me for a second but there is a sub culture here in Torornto where Maulvis marrying for a short term and many have kids with women and divorce them and move on. Having a kid out of wedlock is really not a big deal here in the West . Did IK do the same? ....very likely but it is his PERSONAL business and in no way happened after he changed himself. I know a maulvi here who had married last time I counted five times and have at least seven kids with different women. My family relative married some prince in Saudi Arabia and she has kids and is wife #xyz. She gets money everymonth and kids get to see daddy I guess on fathers day.

If you talk about the religion then perhaps you should know what Quran says about sinners repenting:

Repentance brings about the love of Allah. Allah says in the Quran “Allah loves those who repent “(Al-Baqarah 2:222).

At another place Allah has said in the Quran, “Oh you who believe! Turn to Allah with sincere repentance (66:8)”

The Prophet (PBUH) said “If the servant acknowledges his sin and repents, then Allah accepts his repentance.”

If IK has repented from his past then your first point is null and void. Personal moral corruption is an issue between Allah and the sinner and is forgiveable provided one repents. He has not usurper wealth or caused physical or financial harm to anyone therefore his personal issues and sins are for Allah to judge not by us.


my battery is dying I will answer your remianing points in a short while...

 

[Khafee]

Absolutely and I like healthy debate. You have your own point of view but because you have brought out some serious allegations I would like you to see the other side as well.

During the time of jahiliya and before Islam came people committed unspeakable deeds. There were Sahabas who were the enemies of Islam and did bad things in their own days before they converted to Islam.

Calling out someone for their actions before they found religion and guidance is totally wrong. I am saying this because living in the West since childhood I was exposed to things that I am not very proud of. But once I started following the religion I found peace and stability. I know many super religious people here who had a very disturbing past. Growing up I have known them to indulge in all kinds of wrong and yet today many are people we look upto.

Qaid e Azam was a known drinker and ate pork when in England. IK who was raised and grew up in England among the most elite society was no different. He absolutely lived a life of sin and having a kid with Seeta White was no different. Now pardon me for a second but there is a sub culture here in Torornto where Maulvis marrying for a short term and many have kids with women and divorce them and move on. Having a kid out of wedlock is really not a big deal here in the West . Did IK do the same? ....very likely but it is his PERSONAL business and in no way happened after he changed himself. I know a maulvi here who had married last time I counted five times and have at least seven kids with different women. My family relative married some prince in Saudi Arabia and she has kids and is wife #xyz. She gets money everymonth and kids get to see daddy I guess on fathers day.

If you talk about the religion then perhaps you should know what Quran says about sinners repenting:

Repentance brings about the love of Allah. Allah says in the Quran “Allah loves those who repent “(Al-Baqarah 2:222).

At another place Allah has said in the Quran, “Oh you who believe! Turn to Allah with sincere repentance (66:8)”

The Prophet (PBUH) said “If the servant acknowledges his sin and repents, then Allah accepts his repentance.”

If IK has repented from his past then your first point is null and void. Personal moral corruption is an issue between Allah and the sinner and is forgiveable provided one repents. He has not usurper wealth or caused physical or financial harm to anyone therefore his personal issues and sins are for Allah to judge not by us.


my battery is dying I will answer your remianing points in a short while...

You are comparing Qaid e Azam to IK? Do you know who turned Qaid e Azam 180?

As to the item in red, two wrongs do not make it a right. Neither are those molvis / misguided folks PM of an "Islamic Republic" so moot point.

Now to address your point that it is IK's personal life, Hazrat Omar's personal decision can be questioned in the middle of a Jummah Khutbah, but not IK?

You say he has repented, do you see that in any of his actions? Maybe you are referring to the historically high interest rate which is in line with Sharia? (Not sarcasm, serious disappointment). Maybe you see his repentance in the crowd he surrounds himself with, Tareen, Zulfi, Firdous, Khusro Bakhtiyar?

As to him "usurping wealth" he is not squeaky clean, as he portrays to be. The following links are not only allegations. A paper trail actually exists.

Imran Khan lost donation money in real estate gambling: Khawaja Asif | The Express Tribune

PML-N leaders provide 'evidence' of Imran Khan's investment of donation money abroad.

tribune.com.pk

Imran lost SKMCH funds in Oman real estate business: Govt

ISLAMABAD - Instead of coming up with clarification on the prime minister’s family position in Panama leaks, the government team yesterday launched a

nation.com.pk

Now lets come to political acumen. Here is a small example:

Pakistan must not join Yemen war, says Imran
March 28, 2015

Saudi Arabia pledges $6bn package to Pakistan
October 24, 2018

'Generous support': UAE pledges $3bn to boost Pakistan's liquidity, reserves
December 21, 2018


Bhai, aap ko buaht buhat mubarak ho IK.

Peace Out.

 

[Zeeman]

your second main point: What I would like to ask about is the misappropriation of funds- Shaukat Khanum Hospital. How did they end up in Dubai?

Now this is an interesting topic on its own. SKH trust is run on the basis of charity similiar to most trusts in England.
Now I am proud to be one of the bigger financial supporter every year here in Canada . I am not saying to show off but to make you realize that I am the stake holder in this venture and I will call it an investment I make towards saving lives in my country. I don't believe in making noises and talk about something I dont have a personal stake in.
I have been supporting SKH when Imran used to come himself with Nusrat Fateh Khan at the harbour front hotel to personally ask for donations. We as Pakistanis should be extremely proud of this institute. How it started and where it is now is a story of resiliency , creativity and personal stubborness of IK. Initially everyone thought he was crazy and he will never succeed. Today it is the standing proof for everyone to see and never again say no he cannot do it.
One thing I studied in my MBA courses was something called wealth creation, preservation and propagation. Charities create endowment fund.

"An endowment fund is an investment fund established by a foundation that makes consistent withdrawals from invested capital. The capital in endowment funds, often used by universities, nonprofit organizations, churches and hospitals, is generally utilized for specific needs or to further a company's operating process".

Some of the funds are invested every year and yes some money was invested through Abraaj's Naqvi. Things did go sour in that investment fund and yes we took a hit too. I can tell you a lot of internal dealings of SKM organization but it is all a privilaged info.

Notto worry all the money goes to the right charitable purposes and every year when we raise close to half a million dollars here we have a sold out fundraiser which is a testimony that people understand and agree with the runnings of SKMH.

more to come....

 

[Khafee]

your second main point: What I would like to ask about is the misappropriation of funds- Shaukat Khanum Hospital. How did they end up in Dubai?

Now this is an interesting topic on its own. SKH trust is run on the basis of charity similiar to most trusts in England.
Now I am proud to be one of the bigger financial supporter every year here in Canada . I am not saying to show off but to make you realize that I am the stake holder in this venture and I will call it an investment I make towards saving lives in my country. I don't believe in making noises and talk about something I dont have a personal stake in.
I have been supporting SKH when Imran used to come himself with Nusrat Fateh Khan at the harbour front hotel to personally ask for donations. We as Pakistanis should be extremely proud of this institute. How it started and where it is now is a story of resiliency , creativity and personal stubborness of IK. Initially everyone thought he was crazy and he will never succeed. Today it is the standing proof for everyone to see and never again say no he cannot do it.
One thing I studied in my MBA courses was something called wealth creation, preservation and propagation. Charities create endowment fund.

"An endowment fund is an investment fund established by a foundation that makes consistent withdrawals from invested capital. The capital in endowment funds, often used by universities, nonprofit organizations, churches and hospitals, is generally utilized for specific needs or to further a company's operating process".

Some of the funds are invested every year and yes some money was invested through Abraaj's Naqvi. Things did go sour in that investment fund and yes we took a hit too. I can tell you a lot of internal dealings of SKM organization but it is all a privilaged info.

Notto worry all the money goes to the right charitable purposes and every year when we raise close to half a million dollars here we have a sold out fundraiser which is a testimony that people understand and agree with the runnings of SKMH.

more to come....

Endowment funds do it openly, NOT through offshore companies in the British Virgin Islands, hiding the ultimate beneficiary.

Pls explain why BVI registered companies were used?

 

[Zeeman]

You are comparing Qaid e Azam to IK? Do you know who turned Qaid e Azam 180?

As to the item in red, two wrongs do not make it a right. Neither are those molvis / misguided folks PM of an "Islamic Republic" so moot point.

Now to address your point that it is IK's personal life, Hazrat Omar's personal decision can be questioned in the middle of a Jummah Khutbah, but not IK?

You say he has repented, do you see that in any of his actions? Maybe you are referring to the historically high interest rate which is in line with Sharia? (Not sarcasm, serious disappointment). Maybe you see his repentance in the crowd he surrounds himself with, Tareen, Zulfi, Firdous, Khusro Bakhtiyar?

As to him "usurping wealth" he is not squeaky clean, as he portrays to be. The following links are not only allegations. A paper trail actually exists.

Imran Khan lost donation money in real estate gambling: Khawaja Asif | The Express Tribune

PML-N leaders provide 'evidence' of Imran Khan's investment of donation money abroad.

tribune.com.pk

Imran lost SKMCH funds in Oman real estate business: Govt

ISLAMABAD - Instead of coming up with clarification on the prime minister’s family position in Panama leaks, the government team yesterday launched a

nation.com.pk

Now lets come to political acumen. Here is a small example:

Pakistan must not join Yemen war, says Imran
March 28, 2015

Saudi Arabia pledges $6bn package to Pakistan
October 24, 2018

'Generous support': UAE pledges $3bn to boost Pakistan's liquidity, reserves
December 21, 2018


Bhai, aap ko buaht buhat mubarak ho IK.

Peace Out.

wait this is you Khafee talking?...someone I take as credible and very reasonable person. You did not answer correctly my friend......
your sources are tribune newspaper and google?

you are mixing way too many issues here. Saudis, support, personal morals, SKMH, Tareen, .....lets keep order here....lets talk about one thing at a time.....

who said no one can question him??? hell if i ever suspect him of corruption I will tell him to go to hell....

I am typing away and i expect you to comeup with structured, reasonable and neutral sources to backup your claims.....quoting or reading Tribune is an insult to our intellect.

 

[Zeeman]

Endowment funds do it openly, NOT through offshore companies in the British Virgin Islands, hiding the ultimate beneficiary.

Pls explain why BVI registered companies were used?

This entire BS of offsure companies is set up to save taxes and I agree with you it was a wrong move by who ever sanctioned it. By the way there are thousand of charities here in Canada who got exposed for the same practice....short sighted move it was.

 

[Khafee]

wait this is you Khafee talking?...someone I take as credible and very reasonable person. You did not answer correctly my friend......
your sources are tribune newspaper and google?

you are mixing way too many issues here. Saudis, support, personal morals, SKMH, Tareen, .....lets keep order here....lets talk about one thing at a time.....

who said no one can question him??? hell if i ever suspect him of corruption I will tell him to go to hell....

I am typing away and i expect you to comeup with structured, reasonable and neutral sources to backup your claims.....quoting or reading Tribune is an insult to our intellect.

Bro, do you expect me to actually publish classified docs on an open forum?

The problem is you dont suspect him, which is painful for me, since I know first hand, what he was and is upto. Painful because you mean something. Anyone else, could go die in the carper for all I care.

I agree with you, Tribune is not credible, but they didnt make the BVI offshore companies

 

[Zeeman]

Look I hate Iran as a government that supports our enemies. I dont care about Shia Sunni nonsense. I am all for destroying Iranian Mullahs but this sectarian talk of what Zulfi Bukhari did or did not do is simply innuendos and Saudis asking him to stay out of meeting is from Dawn newspaper.

Any ways I will let you have this point as I find it irrelevent to our discussion.