China Sells J-10 Fourth Generation Fighters to Pakistan

[BATMAN]

View attachment 18728

What was special in Rafale to which SR quoted and pointed as reason for J10 induction?

jF-17 got AESA, HMS, multiple weapon integration, integrated sensors, EW suite, air refueling, if not better than equally good data comm. with AWACS and ground, single engine, etc.... so where's the significant difference?

 

[BATMAN]

The heavy degree of customization is taking its time.

This make sense, otherwise, i don't see any significant edge in current specs. of J10, specially when we have F-16 who has higher payload and fuel carrying capacity.

 

[Khafee]

What was special in Rafale to which SR quoted and pointed as reason for J10 induction?

jF-17 got AESA, HMS, multiple weapon integration, integrated sensors, EW suite, air refueling, if not better than equally good data comm. with AWACS and ground, single engine, etc.... so where's the significant difference?

Compared to the JF-17, the J-10 has a higher payload, faster time to station, longer loiter time, better EW pkg, built in IRST, longer range radar, and better processing power as well, i.e. it can simultaneously track and engage more threats.

 

[Khafee]

This make sense, otherwise, i don't see any significant edge in current specs. of J10, specially when we have F-16 who has higher payload and fuel carrying capacity.

F16 comes with strings

 

[Khafee]

This make sense, otherwise, i don't see any significant edge in current specs. of J10, specially when we have F-16 who has higher payload and fuel carrying capacity.

I just remembered something, there is a buddy refueling system, under development for the J10.

The one in operation for the J15, is a bit too overweight for a single engine fighter, as shown in the pic below.

UPAZ-1 refueling pod

 

[BATMAN]

Compared to the JF-17, the J-10 has a higher payload, faster time to station, longer loiter time, better EW pkg, built in IRST, longer range radar, and better processing power as well, i.e. it can simultaneously track and engage more threats.

Agree on all counts, IRST indeed is a value added feature, but does rest of the stated higher spec. give any significant advantage in war theater of India and Pakistan?
I think, J-10 are basically intended to be used for delivery of radioactive package, while jF-17 will serve as conventional package delivery platform.

 

[BATMAN]

F16 comes with strings

This is a very strong reason and make sense.
In today's SW centered and wired world, technology is not as transparent as looks on paper.

 

[War Historian]

Compared to the JF-17, the J-10 has a higher payload, faster time to station, longer loiter time, better EW pkg, built in IRST, longer range radar, and better processing power as well, i.e. it can simultaneously track and engage more threats.

View attachment 18741

J-10CP is the need of the hour. To match the indian Rafale , J-10CP is the answer. our JF-17 is multirole jet, but that's a light weight fighter and J-10CP is medium weight fighter jet.
J-10CP can compensate the shortcomings of JFT in weight carrying , high thrust engine , longer range , bigger fire control radar , better integration of future Chinese weapons and EW upgrades.
Future war prospect, PAF can lease PLAAF J-10, so that's a plus point. In a war we can't get F-16 or JFT in quick time. But PLAAF is the main operator of J-10 , so we can get Chinese air force jet in a short time to raise new squadrons. No other jet can give this luxury to PAF. Thanks.

 

[TsAr]

This make sense, otherwise, i don't see any significant edge in current specs. of J10, specially when we have F-16 who has higher payload and fuel carrying capacity.

Then you need to dig deep and study more.

 

[BATMAN]

J-10CP is the need of the hour. To match the indian Rafale , J-10CP is the answer. our JF-17 is multirole jet, but that's a light weight fighter and J-10CP is medium weight fighter jet.
J-10CP can compensate the shortcomings of JFT in weight carrying , high thrust engine , longer range , bigger fire control radar , better integration of future Chinese weapons and EW upgrades.
Future war prospect, PAF can lease PLAAF J-10, so that's a plus point. In a war we can't get F-16 or JFT in quick time. But PLAAF is the main operator of J-10 , so we can get Chinese air force jet in a short time to raise new squadrons. No other jet can give this luxury to PAF. Thanks.

we don't exactly know, the exact weight carrying capacity of J-10, but i can say jF-17 have higher TWR and more agility.
at the same time, more fuel carrying capacity is offset by more weight carrying capacity and extra drag.
While, more weight carrying capacity matter in strike missions involving A2G roles, but what matters in in full blown war, is turn around time.
However, if J10 has better EW suite, it's an advantage, otherwise Su-30 have bigger radar than jF-17, but it didn't helped InAF.
Although, jF-17 being light frame jet, in A2A role it can carry 2xPL15, 2 x side winders, bullets, and one fuel tank. In ground role, the weapon integration is larger than standard J10, includes MAR from mectron, not sure if J10 has already been integrated with foreign weapons.
Of course J10 being delta platform, it's flight performance is different to jF-17 at different altitude and speeds.

 

[Khafee]

Agree on all counts, IRST indeed is a value added feature, but does rest of the stated higher spec. give any significant advantage in war theater of India and Pakistan?
I think, J-10 are basically intended to be used for delivery of radioactive package, while jF-17 will serve as conventional package delivery platform.

The nuke capability cannot be discounted, but given the SOW pkg they bring, they will eventually be replacing 50yr old mirages as well. I personally pray, this happens sooner than later.

 

[War Historian]

we don't exactly know, the exact weight carrying capacity of J-10, but i can say jF-17 have higher TWR.
at the same time, more weight carrying capacity is off set by carrying more fuel, it may matter in strike missions involving A2G roles, but in full blown war, what matters is turn around time.
However, if J10 has better EW suite, it's an advantage, otherwise Su-30 have bigger radar than jF-17, but it didn't helped InAF.
While jF-17 being light frame jet, in A2A role it can carry 2xPL15, 2 x side winders, bullets, and one fuel tank. In ground role, the weapon integration is larger than standard J10, includes MAR from mectron, not sure if J10 has already been integrated with foreign weapons.
Of course J10 being delta platform, it's flight performance is different to jF-17 at different altitude and speeds.

Sir in this article your all questions are answered.
TWR
Hard points
Ferray range
And Sir Su -30 has PESA radar J-10CP would be equipped with fire control AESA radar.

 

[Khafee]

Just an interesting article from 2017​

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New Chinese Weapons Seen On J-10C Fighter​

- July 20, 2017
by Chen Chuanren

On this J-10C fighter, PL-10 air-to-air missiles hang from the outboard wing pylons and long-range PL-15s from the inboards. (Image Credit: Chinese Internet)

An operational People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) Chengdu J-10C fighter has been seen carrying pairs of PL-10 and PL-15 air-to-air missiles (AAMs) for the first time. They are the PLAAF’s next-generation short-range and long-range AAMs, respectively. According to Chinese reports, their performance is equivalent or superior to that of their Western counterparts.

Developed by the 607 Institute, the PL-15 (Pi Li or Thunderbolt), is China’s latest beyond-visual-range air-to air missile (BVRAAM). It achieved a first firing in September 2015. Powered by a dual-pulse rocket motor, the PL-15 has a maximum speed of Mach 4 and is reported to achieve a standoff range of 300 km. In comparison, its predecessor PL-12 has a range of 100 km, similar to its Western counterpart, the AIM-120C

AMRAAM. According to Chinese reports, the PL-15 will enable the PLAAF to down enemy high-value assets such as tankers and AEW aircraft, beyond the engagement range of their escorts.

After seven years of development, the PL-10 short-range AAM was introduced last year. Chinese media has highlighted that the PL-10 is the first all-aspect missile in the PLAAF, with a 90-degree off-boresight angle and thrust-vectoring capabilities. It is reported to have a range of at least 20 km and with a multi-element imaging infrared seeker, the PL-10 is said to be very resistant to electronic countermeasures.

The PL-10 has been seen on various test aircraft, including the Shenyang J-16 and Chengdu J-20, as the PLAAF prepares to replace the PL-8 on its next-generation fighters. To further exploit the PL-10’s high off-boresight capabilities, the PLAAF could develop a helmet cueing system, which is currently not seen on any Chinese pilots.

The PLAAF has stopped production of the Chengdu J-10B, in favor of the improved J-10C. Like its predecessor, the J-10C features the diffuser supersonic inlet (DSI) but it is equipped with an indigenous active electronically scanned array (AESA) fire-control radar.

The J-10B/C series has also become PLAAF’s latest multi-role fighter, since it can perform ground strike and suppression of enemy anti defense roles with the KD88H missile and YJ91 anti-radiation missile, respectively. Chinese analysts estimate that with the standard configuration of three drop tanks and air-to-air missiles, the J-10B/C could have a combat radius of 1,200 km, covering the Korean peninsula and into Japanese air space from its Yanji base in northeastern China.

 

[BATMAN]

Then you need to dig deep and study more.

my post which you quoted, says SIGNIFICANT advantage beside extra fuel /load carrying capacity.
I can tell you, any thing significant is not in public domain and it has to be EW suite and sensors.

 

[BATMAN]

Sir in this article your all questions are answered.
TWR
Hard points
Ferray range
And Sir Su -30 has PESA radar J-10CP would be equipped with fire control AESA radar.View attachment 18747View attachment 18748

This article has no substance for me.

1- I don't agree to the TWR comparison in the article you posted. In my guess, both airframes have similar TWR not so much different as given.
2- Once TWR is (more less) same, the engine thrust need not to be discussed independently, specially without even considering difference in empty weight, which is almost double in case of J10. 10Kton vs.6Kton
3- Agree on speed, and i'm well aware of it.
4- If there's extra fuel carrying capacity, than there must be increased ferry range, but the comparison in your article is unsubstantiated, we don't even know the basic parameters used for comparison.
5- We have dual weapon pylons integrated with jF-17, which is useful for A2G role which is a huge topic and need lot of time to discuss but J10 has an advantage there.