Comms check!

[Khafee]

Just in case you need a little encouragement, this is a little bit to get you started. The Mehtar Band of the Turks and the other musicians are playing an interesting tune.


Please watch (or rather, listen) from 06:10 onwards.

@jbgt90

I invite you to watch this, for two reasons:

1. The parade drill; it has evolved into a curious hybrid, and now I understand how the routines used at the Wagah border have been adopted;
2. The commentary: it will establish clearly a point that rises very frequently at moments of disagreement between Indian and Pakistani members of any forum. You only have to listen to the commentary for the difference between that commentary and any commentary delivered at any Indian military parade to be apparent immediately.

No, you don't have to watch all of it; just the foot marchers portions will do.

"Ay Mard e Mujahid waqt e Shadat hai aya" -thats the music 6.10 on @I.R.A @Hithchiker @The Sandman am I right? Btw @16.59 why is the President holding his stomach?

@Joe Shearer Pls explain point #2

 

[Joe Shearer]

"Ay Mard e Mujahid waqt e Shadat hai aya" -thats the music 6.10 on @I.R.A @Hithchiker @The Sandman am I right?

@Joe Shearer Pls explain point #2

In an Indian parade, there is seldom, if ever (I do not remember a single example) of any reference to any other country, except to express friendship to one whose head is a guest at the parade.

In this parade, it was painful to hear, again and again and again, India being singled out as an existential enemy.

All the time when members from these two countries quarrel about which is obsessed about the other, I have given these discussions, better described as noisy quarrels, a wide berth. After listening to this commentary, the reality became clear. I had been fooling myself.

 

[Khafee]

In an Indian parade, there is seldom, if ever (I do not remember a single example) of any reference to any other country, except to express friendship to one whose head is a guest at the parade.

In this parade, it was painful to hear, again and again and again, India being singled out as an existential enemy.

All the time when members from these two countries quarrel about which is obsessed about the other, I have given these discussions, better described as noisy quarrels, a wide berth. After listening to this commentary, the reality became clear. I had been fooling myself.

Well with the capture of Kulbhushan your case has become weaker, but try to look at this way, MOST Pakistanis (that I have met) do not hold ill of India / Indians, it only the extremists that they are allergic to. I would suggest, when you have time to go to Lahore, or Karachi OR just Wagah Border, and personally interact with them, you will be pleasantly surprised.

Secondly, and more importantly, India is a convent scapegoat for their follies as well, you have to give them that! After all Surrey Palace, Jeddah Steel Mill, Swiss bank accounts, are all because of India.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Well with the capture of Kulbhushan your case has become weaker, but try to look at this way, MOST Pakistanis (that I have met) do not hold ill of India / Indians, it only the extremists that they are allergic to. I would suggest, when you have time to go to Lahore, or Karachi OR just Wagah Border, and personally interact with them, you will be pleasantly surprised.

Secondly, and more importantly, India is a convent scapegoat for their follies as well, you have to give them that! After all Surrey Palace, Jeddah Steel Mill, Swiss bank accounts, are all because of India.

What case?

I was talking about the obsession of one country's citizens about the other country. Kulbhushan Yadav is surely not part of this obsession? Do you find Indians placing David Headley as their identification photograph? Do you find Indians wallowing in the dozens of Pakistani agents who are found out every year? Not this one who has been put into the dock under very murky circumstances, but literally dozens. I suggest you look at the dismissive, small news items that report these and gauge for yourself how used we have become to such destabilising efforts, and how little attention we pay to them.

As for Pakistanis met and spoken to, I agree totally with you; my interaction with them, on a sustained, continuing basis in writing, rather than business relations, dates from 2008, from soon after the Bombay attacks. The vast bulk of them are decent people, with no unhealthy obsession with Indian duplicity and treachery. This is a recent phenomenon for me, and dates back perhaps six months. That is when green bhakts began flooding into the Internet.

Since you mentioned India being a 'convenient' scapegoat, quite possibly you are right, but I wouldn't know; like most other Indians, I have not the slightest clue what you are talking about. What is Surrey Place, what does India have to do with the Jeddah Steel Mill, and how are we responsible for Swiss bank accounts? It simply doesn't make sense when you say that these are all because of India. What are these and what does India have to do with them? Please remember that you are speaking to a more than averagely knowledgeable Indian, who does know a bit about Pakistani issues. Of the list, I only recognise Swiss bank accounts, because our politicians and business men had, in the past, pushed in large sums of money into such accounts. How are their deposits anything to do with Pakistan, as I presume that you are suggesting that Pakistani wages of corruption are in some mysterious way connected to India?

 

[Khafee]

Since you mentioned India being a 'convenient' scapegoat, quite possibly you are right, but I wouldn't know; like most other Indians, I have not the slightest clue what you are talking about. What is Surrey Place, what does India have to do with the Jeddah Steel Mill, and how are we responsible for Swiss bank accounts? It simply doesn't make sense when you say that these are all because of India. What are these and what does India have to do with them? Please remember that you are speaking to a more than averagely knowledgeable Indian, who does know a bit about Pakistani issues. Of the list, I only recognise Swiss bank accounts, because our politicians and business men had, in the past, pushed in large sums of money into such accounts. How are their deposits anything to do with Pakistan, as I presume that you are suggesting that Pakistani wages of corruption are in some mysterious way connected to India?

Surrey Place - Asif Ali Zardaris Palace in UK
Jeddah Steel Mill - Nawaz Sharief's Achilles heel
Swiss Bank Accounts - Pakistani Elites Black money

"It's all India's fault" = Sarcasm on my part, and scapegoat, on the part of those guilty of the above.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Surrey Place - Asif Ali Zardaris Palace in UK
Jeddah Steel Mill - Nawaz Sharief's Achilles heel
Swiss Bank Accounts - Pakistani Elites Black money

"It's all India's fault" = Sarcasm on my part, and scapegoat, on the part of those guilty of the above.

So you've hanged me with my own rope, sarcasm. I shall have to be very careful with you in future. I have seldom been bowled out with more finesse. You are very dangerous, my friend.

 

[Khafee]

So you've hanged me with my own rope, sarcasm. I shall have to be very careful with you in future. I have seldom been bowled out with more finesse. You are very dangerous, my friend.

The hunter, became the hunted

 

[Joe Shearer]

The hunter, became the hunted

Are you Oscar, in disguise? He is the only one who has done this to me, multiple times. Only one, before now. Seriously.

 

[Khafee]

Are you Oscar, in disguise? He is the only one who has done this to me, multiple times. Only one, before now. Seriously.

No I'm very much Khafee

 

[Hithchiker]

I

Just in case you need a little encouragement, this is a little bit to get you started. The Mehtar Band of the Turks and the other musicians are playing an interesting tune.


Please watch (or rather, listen) from 06:10 onwards.

@jbgt90

I invite you to watch this, for two reasons:

1. The parade drill; it has evolved into a curious hybrid, and now I understand how the routines used at the Wagah border have been adopted;
2. The commentary: it will establish clearly a point that rises very frequently at moments of disagreement between Indian and Pakistani members of any forum. You only have to listen to the commentary for the difference between that commentary and any commentary delivered at any Indian military parade to be apparent immediately.

No, you don't have to watch all of it; just the foot marchers portions will do.

Have gone through foot marchers it is just they are doing it on the songs used for moral boosters...No where India is mentioned , if i have not missed it...

 

[Hithchiker]

"Ay Mard e Mujahid waqt e Shadat hai aya" -thats the music 6.10 on @I.R.A @Hithchiker @The Sandman am I right? Btw @16.59 why is the President holding his stomach?

@Joe Shearer Pls explain point #2

100 % its the same everybody is listening this tune from childhood ...Parade songs are nor remembered on tune very easily..Band does good job in that...
Leave President just go through the NOOR depicting on face of PM

 

[Hithchiker]

Just in case you need a little encouragement, this is a little bit to get you started. The Mehtar Band of the Turks and the other musicians are playing an interesting tune.


Please watch (or rather, listen) from 06:10 onwards.

@jbgt90

I invite you to watch this, for two reasons:

1. The parade drill; it has evolved into a curious hybrid, and now I understand how the routines used at the Wagah border have been adopted;
2. The commentary: it will establish clearly a point that rises very frequently at moments of disagreement between Indian and Pakistani members of any forum. You only have to listen to the commentary for the difference between that commentary and any commentary delivered at any Indian military parade to be apparent immediately.

No, you don't have to watch all of it; just the foot marchers portions will do.

Will add little more ...I believe India hatred in not dispensed across Pakistani public and never made an Issue in GE like recently we have observed in India GE with rise of Modi, you might agree or disagree on this...
Every army has ethos and slogans design specifically keeping in view the national, cultural and religious nature of Armed forces...I believe you are referring to metaphors being used in commentary ...these are mostly with respect to historical and religious context not specif to India...Lets say "Alam" now this is nothing to do with India , it is refereed in other context, if i get you right...
Good share by the way never thought of listing commentary in this context..."Ham na ronda ha daryao ko paharao ko" no its not related to India..All these are poetic way and each of stanza in this poetic way is connected with history long before Indian vs Pakistan rivalary

 

[Joe Shearer]

I

Have gone through foot marchers it is just they are doing it on the songs used for moral boosters...No where India is mentioned , if i have not missed it...

I was referring to the commentary, and the commentators.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Hithchiker

I am disturbed that you are disturbed.

1. What I wrote was not a complaint, it was a sad observation; it was not something I took pleasure in saying;
2. The marching tune was excellent; elsewhere, I had reproduced General Vijay Oberoy's complaint about the downward trend in Indian military music, and what I heard on this clip was a direct (and enviable) contrast;
3. In the commentary, not once, but almost on every other occasion, there was a reference to India as the enemy;
4. I want to emphasise this: you can go through the equivalent commentary on Indian parades, and check for yourself - there is NO reference to another country as the enemy.

This is not meant to hurt your feelings. On the contrary, I was sharing my own feelings of distress that an entire country's military system seems to have been built on active and practised hatred of another country.

It was not a good feeling. But it was not a feeling of resentment against Pakistan and Pakistanis. It was a feeling of sadness, that we should be hated like this; especially, in my own case, due to a belief that we have been more sinned against than sinning, not a belief that I allow to guide my interactions, not a belief that I allow to guide my hopefulness about relations between two neighbouring countries, and certainly not a belief that influences my evaluation of whether an individual is likely to be likeable or not.

AND - and this is a complaint, and I hope you are punished for the evil that you have done - you changed your nick and didn't tell us.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Will add little more ...I believe India hatred in not dispensed across Pakistani public and never made an Issue in GE like recently we have observed in India GE with rise of Modi, you might agree or disagree on this...
Every army has ethos and slogans design specifically keeping in view the national, cultural and religious nature of Armed forces...I believe you are referring to metaphors being used in commentary ...these are mostly with respect to historical and religious context not specif to India...Lets say "Alam" now this is nothing to do with India , it is refereed in other context, if i get you right...
Good share by the way never thought of listing commentary in this context..."Ham na ronda ha daryao ko paharao ko" no its not related to India..All these are poetic way and each of stanza in this poetic way is connected with history long before Indian vs Pakistan rivalary

About the situation in India with regard to Modi, have you seriously not read my posts about Modi and about his whole lot? I could not agree with you more, about Modi and his party, and the pirs to their roles as mursheds, the RSS. And therefore,, consequently, about the rise in India of hatred, of political opponents, and of minorities alike.