JF-17 related news. | Page 22 | World Defense

JF-17 related news.

TsAr

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I was thinking about this new Russian engine news. I am little suspicious of this offer.
It will be very stupid of us to consider this engine so late in the project as any new equipment change especially engines will completely throw off JF17 induction time line.
It's not easy easy to simply switch engines. Integration, testing, retooling, training and maintenance facilities will take months if not years.
I personally suspect the timing of this announcement. It is almost as if India agreed to let Russians offer this engine because they know Pakistanis will be tempted and it will significantly delay the arrival of Block 3.
I am not sure since not much is available about this engine, but I think the new engine is just a upgrade of the original RD93. Physical dimension remains the same, maybe software and metallurgy is changed.
 

Mechanic

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I was thinking about this new Russian engine news. I am little suspicious of this offer.
It will be very stupid of us to consider this engine so late in the project as any new equipment change especially engines will completely throw off JF17 induction time line.
It's not easy easy to simply switch engines. Integration, testing, retooling, training and maintenance facilities will take months if not years.
I personally suspect the timing of this announcement. It is almost as if India agreed to let Russians offer this engine because they know Pakistanis will be tempted and it will significantly delay the arrival of Block 3.
I dont think Russia likes to play these kind of games especially when they know Pakistan has a 2nd option available WS-13 and considering how China has started to trust its engines and replace Russian engines with Chinese in its new variants of fighters ,last thing Russia need is to intentionally delay its engine for JF-17 since it maybe the only Chinese jet that will be using Russian engine in next decade. 3 prototypes (2 in 2020) were supposed to be made before production , 1st prototype was probably made to check its new fly by wire system ,HUD ,cockpit , 2nd will be probably made to check its AESA and avionics and 3rd as a complete package with engine and all and things are already delayed bcz of virus , Even if engine is half a year delayed Pakistan can start upgrading its previous Blocks if the first two prototypes are successful, I dont think there is much that India can do to delay Block 3 and given the economic conditions of countries due to corona , it would be idiotic to delay to a good multi million dollar
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Araz

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The reason I believe Pakistan does have the PL-15 is - Ark Angel mentioned in one of his comments that PAF is waiting with an even longer stick than last time (27th Feb). Since no AAMs were acquired post 27th, it is very likely that the AAM he is talking about is the PL-15. That also is the only AAM accessible to the PAF that is even longer than the C5
100 PL15 apparentlu were acquired urgently post 27/02.
A
 

Araz

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I am not sure since not much is available about this engine, but I think the new engine is just a upgrade of the original RD93. Physical dimension remains the same, maybe software and metallurgy is changed.
Even though replacement would be a straight forward exercise due to the same size. It would still need to be tested. Messiach pointed out that the PAF RD93 thrust and other parameters are approaching/equal to the MA version.
A
 

Blackbirdz!

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New engine for the Pakistani JF-17 fighter jet is RD-93MA View attachment 14648 A new engine for the Pakistani JF-17 fighter jet, dubbed RD-93MA being developed by Russia’s United Engine Corporation (UEC)-Klimov has entered thermal chamber tests to confirm high-speed characteristics in simulated flight conditions. The RD-93MA has been specifically developed to power single engine light fighter jets. It is an upgrade of the RD-93 engine which currently powers the Pakistani JF-17/Chinese Chengdu FC-1 single engine fighter jets. With the successful completion of the thermal chamber test stage, it will be possible to proceed to flight design tests. A set of tests in the TsIAM large thermal pressure chamber will be held as part of the experimental design work on the RD-93MA, a UEC statement said today. During the tests, the engine will simulate conditions as close as possible to actual flight. Here, the BARK-93MA, the automatic control system of the engine, designed and manufactured at UEC-Klimov, will also be put to test. The thrust of the RD-93MA is expected to 9300 Kgf compared to 8300 kgf of the RD-93, a significant bump-up in power which will help the JF-17/FC-1 to carry more armaments and fly at a higher speed (this information is not from UEC but earlier published sources). “The RD-93MA engine is distinguished by improved operational characteristics, increased thermodynamic parameters, a larger fan and an upgraded automatic power plant control system. The main engine parameters are also enhanced- the assigned resource and thrust, an emergency engine start mode is provided, and the possibility of emergency fuel drain is realized.” the statement said. “All this is due to the specifics associated with the possible use of the power plant on a single-engine aircraft, which entails additional safety requirements,” the statement added leaving no doubt as to its potential applications for an foreign customer as Russia does not possess a single-engine fighter jet. “The start of testing was preceded by a long preparatory phase. During 2018-2019 design documentation was handed over to manufacturing plants, production was organized in a new cooperation structure, engine models of the RD-93MA were developed and a new engine "harness" was manufactured. In addition, tests of the VK-100-1MK turbo-starter in the TsIAM heat chamber according to confirmation of high-altitude launch were conducted. Prototypes of the BARK-93MA (automatic engine control system) were made and much more,” the statement said. The JF-17 block III, a highly advanced version of the JF-17 Block II, was test flown for the first time at the start of this year. Besides the engine, the key upgrade is an AESA- Active electronically scanning array- radar which has already been selected from a Chinese manufacturer. Earlier reports said the RD-93MA engine will be directly sold to Pakistan. However, sources told Military Cognizance that the engine upgrade work is under contract from a Chinese company for which over 100 such engines is to be manufactured. The engine is expected to enter fight test mode towards the end of the year which means the JF-17 Block III would enter flight tests with the RD-93MA engine sometime in 2021-22 at the earliest.

so i was right afterall, RD93MA's thrust is only 91kn(9300kgf) vs WS13E's 99.86kn (10,183.32 kgf) thats almost 100kn.

No wonder Block 3 took off without afterburners.
1594421554814.png
 

Mastankhan

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I was thinking about this new Russian engine news. I am little suspicious of this offer.
It will be very stupid of us to consider this engine so late in the project as any new equipment change especially engines will completely throw off JF17 induction time line.
It's not easy easy to simply switch engines. Integration, testing, retooling, training and maintenance facilities will take months if not years.
I personally suspect the timing of this announcement. It is almost as if India agreed to let Russians offer this engine because they know Pakistanis will be tempted and it will significantly delay the arrival of Block 3.

Hi,

Look at it in another way---.

The engine progress and development does not coincide with the aircraft development---.

The manufacturer just bought GE engines for the upcoming F15's---even though they wanted the Pratt & Whitney which were not ready---.

The russians did plan and develop the engine for the BLK3---and as in any other change--sometimes it takes longer than envisioned---so no different here---.

The russians are not going to let go of the JF17 project just like that---. The aircraft has enhanced the reputation of the russian engine.
 
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Armchair

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Even though replacement would be a straight forward exercise due to the same size. It would still need to be tested. Messiach pointed out that the PAF RD93 thrust and other parameters are approaching/equal to the MA version.
A

Pakistan badly needs a "Skunk works" like endeavor. There is something called having too much process and too much testing. We are copying standard large scale production and R&D processes but failing to copy the small teams, flexible R&D endeavors like Skunk Works that really was the defining factor for Western dominance of disruptive technology.
 

Mechanic

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I was thinking about this new Russian engine news. I am little suspicious of this offer.
It will be very stupid of us to consider this engine so late in the project as any new equipment change especially engines will completely throw off JF17 induction time line.
It's not easy easy to simply switch engines. Integration, testing, retooling, training and maintenance facilities will take months if not years.
I personally suspect the timing of this announcement. It is almost as if India agreed to let Russians offer this engine because they know Pakistanis will be tempted and it will significantly delay the arrival of Block 3.
This is going to sound stupid but seeing all this hype that is being created regarding RD-93MA i think its the other way round , Pakistan has been using same Russian engine for 14 years and it was clear from 2018 that PAF will continue with RD-93 for Block 3 then why all of a sudden there is so much hype , from Fb pages to twitter to defence forums links are being shared "Russia UEC Klimov to make new engines for Pakistan JF-17". I am not getting why is there so much hype being created regarding RD-93MA like it was honour for them to work for Pakistan .Its going to sound stupid but i think Russia is doing this to put pressure on Russia , Its clear how much India is sliding towards US and we also saw how Russia played no role in defusing the situation between China and India , No speeding up S400 delivery despite India request , I believe its Russia's warning towards India "Dont get too close to America or we(Russia) will start providing Pakistan some equipment that may trouble you(India)" . We also know PAF wont let Russia delay Block 3 that much and i dont believe the news that engine production will start in late 2021 , I believe it will be ready for testing of prototype before this year end and production will start in 2021 1st quarter ,In my kind of stupid opinion i think its Russia warning to India otherwise i am not understanding why is Russia hyping this engine so much
 

Khafee

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J-31 is essentially a copy paste of an F-35 on a twin engine format. That is why - and also, it is a Chinese design. If anything is to be believed from messiach and from the CAS > Azm is designed in Pakistan - not a Chinese aircraft with a Pak flag stamped in.
Pls keep in mind, Retd, or even serving officers will sometimes send people of on a wrong trajectory for obvious reasons.
 
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