Pakistan to buy 36 latest Su-35's - WDF Exclusive!

[TsAr]

All this Fan Boys Talk of KSA/UAE/QATAR buying PAF this and that NEEDS to END here now. We are on our own sails.

@Khafee

 

[Mastankhan]

J-10A had major short comings sir. Consequently whilst FC-20(J-10B) FY 2008-2009 came out Funds had already dried up. Consequently FC-20 became the J-10C as PLAAF moved from one step to another in a quick succession. PAF saw it as an impressive Fighter but again The American Offer of 18 F-16 Blk 52s delayed the plan as Finances have not been supportive for a multi jet deal. F-16s we’re committed to Pakistan before the Launch of OP in NWA as it was one of the requirements put forward to the Obama Admin before the start of OP which was duly committed to by the then Sec Def. But the Faisco later on again made PAF evaluate 4 Jets. The Principal A on the List was short listed but the Talks broke down eventually due to unrealistic offer by the OEM and an unreasonable attitude in Negotiations(Take it or Leave it attitude).
So Sir its a mix of Geo-Politics, Bad/Hard Luck/Empty Coffers factors.

Hi

J 10 a was never the target. J10 C was.

I higly recommend posters not to use finances as an excuse.
They should never be accepted as an excuse.

Once you get away from the finances issue, then you get to see a clearer picture.

Incompetence, intentional sabotage, “ i hate it becsuse someone else made the deal “ “ i did not get credit for the deal so i am cancelling it” , lack of urgency, poor situational awareness——these are the real issues behind not making the deal.

Brining up financing as the main culprit was hiding the real problems and it was used extensively fur that purpose.

The real culprit was elsewhere. Finances were not the real problem. They were created to whitewash the real issue.

 

[Ark-Angel]

S

Hi

J 10 a was never the target. J10 C was.

I higly recommend posters not to use finances as an excuse.
They should never be accepted as an excuse.

Once you get away from the finances issue, then you get to see a clearer picture.

Incompetence, intentional sabotage, “ i hate it becsuse someone else made the deal “ “ i did not get credit for the deal so i am cancelling it” , lack of urgency, poor situational awareness——these are the real issues behind not making the deal.

Brining up financing as the main culprit was hiding the real problems and it was used extensively fur that purpose.

The real culprit was elsewhere. Finances were not the real problem. They were created to whitewash the real issue.

Sir with all due respect, when we are under IFI financing major acquisitions take a dump. Same case happened with our AFDP-2030. The men in blue have been complicit in multiple fiascos like Foregoing the Rafale and Go Slow Approach for the FC-20, but when FC-20 was being deliberated over Italians and Ruskies came with their own offers. Thus from being having only a single option(FC-20) you got 3. All this process of Negotiations etc is extremely time consuming. Therefore As I have mentioned earlier A HOST of factors have delayed the planned induction of FC-20 finance being ONE.

 

[AliYusuf]

Air Commodore (R) Sajjad Hyder's heartening and significant statement.

 

[Mastankhan]

S

Sir with all due respect, when we are under IFI financing major acquisitions take a dump. Same case happened with our AFDP-2030. The men in blue have been complicit in multiple fiascos like Foregoing the Rafale and Go Slow Approach for the FC-20, but when FC-20 was being deliberated over Italians and Ruskies came with their own offers. Thus from being having only a single option(FC-20) you got 3. All this process of Negotiations etc is extremely time consuming. Therefore As I have mentioned earlier A HOST of factors have delayed the planned induction of FC-20 finance being ONE.

Hi

So it became a lack of focus lack of direction. Walking away from a sure thing to the rainbow in the skies.

My point is that in the last two decades, there were multiple opportunities where if we had stuck to what we chose—- we had a deal.

 

[Ark-Angel]

Hi

So it became a lack of focus lack of direction. Walking away from a sure thing to the rainbow in the skies.

My point is that in the last two decades, there were multiple opportunities where if we had stuck to what we chose—- we had a deal.

The Best Lost was of the Rafale. PERIOD. If they had gone for it then NO FC-20s....in short no need for any other A/C which all are being deliberated upon now.

 

[Mastankhan]

The Best Lost was of the Rafale. PERIOD. If they had gone for it then NO FC-20s....in short no need for any other A/C which all are being deliberated upon now.

Hi

@Khafee and others

‘Good is the enemy of the best’.

The strut in the step of the paf got the best of them.

 

[Khafee]

PAF only has 2 Friends left in the world sir. No1 are the Chinese 2nd are the Turks. Rest all have shown their Backs to PAF in General and Pakistan in particular. The Arabs have been deeply scarred by our reaction to their Yemen Fiasco. It’s a damage beyond repair. Project Financing on 15-20 years term is doable especially by Chinese or Polish EXIM banks. But the peeps here work/believe that the Acquisition can only be done when you have hard cash lined up. The mindset/machinery in the AHQ(Plans/Finance/Paltforms Divisions & Ministry of Finance) needs a major overhaul. Arabs won’t EVER be bankrolling our acquisitions EVER. PERIOD. All this Fan Boys Talk of KSA/UAE/QATAR buying PAF this and that NEEDS to END here now. We are on our own sails.

After swallowing US$12bn, that is a very biased view.

 

[Khafee]

@Khafee

Ignore him, kids are entitled to their fantasies.

 

[PewPew]

Anyways, just my opinion, but I wouldn't buy anything from the Russians. Pakistan is far from immune from the effects of CAATSA, and the Russians are far from amenable at the moment. Clearly, any talk with the Russians implies that Pakistan has cash that it can spend (be it of its own, from the GCC, or both). I'd put that money towards either China for as many J-10CEs as possible, or 18 Typhoon T3s.

 

[Mastankhan]

The Best Lost was of the Rafale. PERIOD. If they had gone for it then NO FC-20s....in short no need for any other A/C which all are being deliberated upon now.

Hi

Indeed Rafale was a big loss.

Thru all this saga, it looks like Paf had no concept or understanding what. Major weapons system is about, and what is its purpose and utility.

They were so engrossed in fighting an enemy that the concept was never developed.

The next big failure occurred when they did not understand that there was much more to the J10 than brining nothing new to the table.

Can someone post this on PDF.

A J10 CE would be like having a JF17 Blk 3, some 4 years ahead of time if Paf thinks that J10 brings nothing new to the table.

But if there is outrageous praise for the Jf17 blk 3 and the J10 ce is the same as blk3 then the problem of not getting it us more of a paf ego problem than that of a utility problem.

 

[Khafee]

Not a possibility again sir. Bilateral defence deals post-1990 are strictly to be ensured and adhered to. No third party Re-Sale is allowed nor the Russians ever believe in such. It dents the credibility of the seller as well as the buyer in International Arena. Such clauses are strictly inserted in Black and White by all major Arms Sellers.

And when was the last time you bought from Russians? Firing arrows in the air, will not help your cause.

 

[PewPew]

Hi

Indeed Rafale was a big loss.

Thru all this saga, it looks like Paf had no concept or understanding what. Major weapons system is about, and what is its purpose and utility.

They were so engrossed in fighting an enemy that the concept was never developed.

The next big failure occurred when they did not understand that there was much more to the J10 than brining nothing new to the table.

The only time the PAF got itself together was post-1971 when it bought Mirage III/5s in small batches and built a massive backbone using F-6s with Sidewinders. It was a simple yet effective approach. If not for the F-16s, they would have moved to the M2Ks with the Mirage F-1 & Mirage III/5 as the backbone. It's not as pretty as F-16s, but it gets the job done. A JF-17 + J-10CE combo isn't pretty, but it gets the job done.

 

[Khafee]

Thank you. The SU27 derivatives are, but the J10 did not have any export to pakistan problems

Actually they are not. PAF walked away from them because of maintenance issues.

 

[TsAr]

The only time the PAF got itself together was post-1971 when it bought Mirage III/5s in small batches and built a massive backbone using F-6s with Sidewinders. It was a simple yet effective approach. If not for the F-16s, they would have moved to the M2Ks with the Mirage F-1 & Mirage III/5 as the backbone. It's not as pretty as F-16s, but it gets the job done. A JF-17 + J-10CE combo isn't pretty, but it gets the job done.

Asghar Khan and Noor khan were visionary leaders.