Pakistan to buy 36 latest Su-35's - WDF Exclusive!

[Defence_reader]

Hi,

What difference does it make if it reaches end of natural life quicker---?

Long life is not the primary job of a weapon or a weapons system---. If it lasts long---that is good---.

Its job is to provide you service NOW---for the problems that you have today---.

The enemy has many a powerful machines---almost all of them have more power than needed---the SU30---the M2K---the mig 29---and now the Rafale---yet the enemy is still crying---why is that @Khafee---why is the enemy still crying---?

Sir g their national hobby is randi rona so they doing ? as per nature.

 

[PewPew]

I'm not sharing any news here, but in my opinion, I still would not discount the Typhoon T3.

Firstly, if the PAF is for whatever reason unable to get additional F-16s from the US, this would free-up funding (outside of CSF/FMF arrears).

Secondly, the T3 can readily inter-operate with the F-16 Block-52/MLU, so we can build a 'high-tech' fighter fleet of ~100 aircraft (especially if we manage to secure the V-upgrade for our existing F-16s).

Thirdly, Leonardo might be amenable to an offset agreement wherein it invests a sizable chunk of the contract into Kamra Aviation City in the form of an extensive D-level MRO facility to support not just the Typhoon (which could include Pakistani plus Kuwaiti, Qatari, Omani, etc planes), but also the domestic AW139 fleet and potentially M346 LIFT, AW101 and/or AW189 should Pakistan go for any of those.

Fourthly, Turkey's interest in the Su-35 and Su-57 likely means it isn't getting what it wants from the Typhoon Consortium, so the prospect of adding used T1s (especially as a bridge until the T3s are ready) is a possibility.

Fifthly, Leonardo could potentially share some critical R&D help for Project Azm, especially in flight control systems, composites manufacturing, etc., if we procure the Typhoon T3.

Based on open source info, a contract for 24 Typhoon T3s would cost $6.6 b USD.

If you spread that across 10 years, your outlay is about $660 m per year.

According to the TyTAN program, it probably costs around $10 m to fly a Typhoon every year (spare parts, maintenance, etc). In other words, if you're operating 24 Typhoons, you're spending $240 m a year on support. These support costs would come out of the PAF's annual budget, not the DGDP's procurement budget. In other words, the procurement outlay is $420 m per year for 10 years.

In other words, the DGDP/PAF need to square $420 m per year to make a Typhoon T3 purchase happen, and if there are no new-build F-16s in the mix, then this is totally doable. However, if you factor in the potential for Leonardo agreeing to offsets, then of that $420 m per year, something like $100 m a year could return to Pakistan in the form of investment in Aviation City (MRO site), R&D support for Project Azm, etc.

Adding to my previous post, Germany is also putting 38 Typhoon T1 on sale. Combined with the Italian Spanish and soon to retire Austrian T1s, I think there are enough planes for 2 squadrons plus spare parts to hold the PAF over until Azm.

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[Humble Analyst]

What will China operate from it's 3 carriers if it's getting rid of J15? Do you know what's the difference between a naval aircraft and one for airforce?

Have you ever stepped on an air craft carrier? Have you ever been in an operational fighter jet cockpit? Have you ever navigated and drove/docked undocked a ship over 1000 feet long? You do under rate others and consider your knowledge supreme.
Convince with logic and not by sarcasm.

 

[Humble Analyst]

@Khafee

Can you plz f’in kick those out talking about under powered engines.

plz kindly launch them.

@Khafee can you please take action so appropriate language is used?

 

[TsAr]

Have you ever stepped on an air craft carrier? Have you ever been in an operational fighter jet cockpit? Have you ever navigated and drove/docked undocked a ship over 1000 feet long? You do under rate others and consider your knowledge supreme.
Convince with logic and not by sarcasm.

Stop whining and address the question that I asked.What will China operate from it's 3 carriers if it's getting rid of J15? If you dont know the answer be Humble as your name suggests and just acknowledge the fact.

 

[space cadet]

Stop whining and address the question that I asked.What will China operate from it's 3 carriers if it's getting rid of J15? If you dont know the answer be Humble as your name suggests and just acknowledge the fact.

They claimed that they are going for a different design, I think it will be a modified design already in production.

In July 2018, Lieutenant General Zhang Honghe of the PLAAF stated that China is developing a new carrier-based aircraft that will replace the J-15 due to four crashes and numerous technical problems.

 

[AliYusuf]

They claimed that they are going for a different design, I think it will be a modified design already in production.

In July 2018, Lieutenant General Zhang Honghe of the PLAAF stated that China is developing a new carrier-based aircraft that will replace the J-15 due to four crashes and numerous technical problems.

Last 3 crashes occurred around 3 years ago.

I have posted reference articles. Also issue was compounded by the Ski-Jump system of the Liaoning.

Also, 4 Crashes in the 6 years of over all service for PLAN, who were operating an aircraft carrier for the first time isn't that much of an issue. In comparison the F-14, had 40 accidents during its first 5 years of service. Although there were more Tomcats in operation. But the USN had 4 decades of experience operating aircraft carriers by then.

Why do you consistently keep bringing up the same issue of accidents over and over again?

 

[TsAr]

They claimed that they are going for a different design, I think it will be a modified design already in production.

In July 2018, Lieutenant General Zhang Honghe of the PLAAF stated that China is developing a new carrier-based aircraft that will replace the J-15 due to four crashes and numerous technical problems.

I agree that China is working on new aircraft for its carrier but that does not mean that j-15 is obsolete or not worthy a plane.....USA inducted JF-35 to replace F-16 does that make the Sola's obsolete......

 

[space cadet]

I am just telling you what the Chinese Air Force General said, and I am sure he knows more about the problems than any of us, and he said it last year. You know the Flogger was a piece of junk that killed a lot of pilots, Russia built a lot of them and sold them to a lot of countries.

 

[AliYusuf]

In July 2018, Lieutenant General Zhang Honghe of the PLAAF stated that China is developing a new carrier-based aircraft that will replace the J-15 due to four crashes and numerous technical problems.

I am just telling you what the Chinese Air Force General said, and I am sure he knows more about the problems than any of us, and he said it last year. You know the Flogger was a piece of junk that killed a lot of pilots, Russia built a lot of them and sold them to a lot of countries.

Curious that an air force (PLAAF) General is commenting on a naval (PLAN) aviation asset J-15?

 

[TsAr]

I am just telling you what the Chinese Air Force General said, and I am sure he knows more about the problems than any of us, and he said it last year. You know the Flogger was a piece of junk that killed a lot of pilots, Russia built a lot of them and sold them to a lot of countries.

Share the link please so others can also read the interview

 

[space cadet]

also, I don't believe the plane is in production anymore, with 2 more carriers soon to be online, and they stopped production? You would think that they would be mass producing them and training new pilots.

 

[space cadet]

Share the link please so others can also read the interview

It came from wiki, although it does not state where it came from, I read else where that it came from Chinese media reports, but I am not sure. Would probably have to go through a dozen old stories on the J-15 to find it

 

[Mastankhan]

Last 3 crashes occurred around 3 years ago.

I have posted reference articles. Also issue was compounded by the Ski-Jump system of the Liaoning.

Also, 4 Crashes in the 6 years of over all service for PLAN, who were operating an aircraft carrier for the first time isn't that much of an issue. In comparison the F-14, had 40 accidents during its first 5 years of service. Although there were more Tomcats in operation. But the USN had 4 decades of experience operating aircraft carriers by then.

Why do you consistently keep bringing up the same issue of accidents over and over again?

Hi,

Carrier world is a different world that most of us have no clue and experience about it and where our sense of reasoning and logic alone will not suffice to make a judgement call.

On the other side are " compressed in time achievements " of china---meaning they have developed more in a short stretch of time that was possible and may have possibly over stepped the 'learning curve'---to correct which---they are retracing their steps to head in the right direction---.

Does that make sense---?

Chinese industrial complex has reached a certain plateau of technology where they are re-assessing their position and making adjustments accordingly to head into the direction that they need to---.

What ever was the requirement or necessary equipment 10-15 years ago may not satisfy them anymore---but making that equipment was a must step---basically a stair step to get to the next higher level---.

 

[AliYusuf]

also, I don't believe the plane is in production anymore, with 2 more carriers soon to be online, and they stopped production? You would think that they would be mass producing them and training new pilots.

There were quite a few issues with the Liaoning AKA (Riga/Varyag of USSR Navy Admiral Kutznetsov class) carrier. That may have prompted the temporary suspension of operations of carrier. Hence till the two new Chinese Carriers were built, one is nearing completion very soon and the other is undergoing sea trials. Production of the upgraded J-15B and J-15D (growler) may quite well be underway.