China Sells J-10 Fourth Generation Fighters to Pakistan | Page 15 | World Defense

China Sells J-10 Fourth Generation Fighters to Pakistan

Armchair

Armchair

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Armchair said:
When you are flying at high altitude and high speed (the way to make your BVR go the farthest and be the deadliest, with a large NEZ - no escape zone), you can use thrust vectoring for greater maneuverability at altitude.

This is because your wings are less and less effective as the density of air decreases. At 40K - 50K feet, you have a small fraction of the density at sea level. At this altitude, your wings are considerably less effective.

Small winged aircraft like F-35, JF-17, even F-16 are at a serious disadvantage against aircraft like the Mirage 2000, Rafale, Eurofighter.

Mirage 2000 has weak engines, so does have an advantage but cannot fully utilize that aerodynamic advantage.

The British built the Eurofighter to fight exactly this battle, while the Rafale is a compromise, so less effective. The British use specially designed engines that are optimal for high altitude high speed combat at altitude, meaning in a real world conflict, they will have the capability to shoot the furthest AAMs and have the best survivability against enemy AAMs.

The Eurofighter however doesn't have something that the J-10 is introducing - thrust vectoring. At altitude, when your wings are not as efficient and your aircraft is being flown like a battleship with a very long radius of turn, thrust vectoring helps not only with ITR (instantaneous turn rate) but STR.

Added to the delta wings already better turn rate at altitude, the thrust vectoring significantly augments it.

Think of it this way - modern SR-AAMs use thrust vectoring for maneuverability. Even though AAMs have tiny wings, they can get excellent maneuverability and ability to turn on a dime. This is because of those thrust vectoring mechanisms they have.

There are many other benefits of thrust vectoring but it is yet to be seen if anyone other than the F-22 meaningfully field, operationally this capability.

Some of these other benefits include:

1. Ability to minimise use of flaps, aelorons, flaperons, stabilizers, thus decreasing drag and decreasing combat RCS
2. Increasing aerodynamic efficiency of flight at altitude.
3. Increasing ability to maintain stable, controlled flight at altitude.
4. Increasing fuel efficiency of cruise at various parameters due to better aerodynamic profile now available due to thrust vectoring

.... other stuff you can ask an aerodynamics expert about.

(And I have not even touched upon pre merge and post merge WVR advantage, mainly sticking to BVR at high altitude and high speed).
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Just to reiterate, what I've written above, if one studied the subject, one would know has already been written and said many years ago by professionals from multiple air forces, my own learning coming from USAF material.

And no, using TVC doesn't necessarily mean "massive energy bleed". Wish posters would read up before hitting the keyboard.
 
Armchair

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Muhammad Omar said:
J15 Egyptian Mirage F16 Block V an now J10
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I'm sure this is not your intention, but those that criticize khafee lump these things together to ridicule him. Actually, khafee didn't say anything about J-10s coming. He does suggest J-15s and F-16 Block 70s.

I personally don't feel PAF would induct more than one new types of aircraft at the same time. However, an outside chance exists because of the extent of the crisis with India, and large scale genocide plans of the same.
 
Muhammad Omar

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Armchair said:
I'm sure this is not your intention, but those that criticize khafee lump these things together to ridicule him. Actually, khafee didn't say anything about J-10s coming. He does suggest J-15s and F-16 Block 70s.

I personally don't feel PAF would induct more than one new types of aircraft at the same time. However, an outside chance exists because of the extent of the crisis with India, and large scale genocide plans of the same.
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Screenshot_20200715_222235.jpg
 
baqai

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Scorpio said:
Do you think J10x news is disinformation or all @Khafee leaks ??
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disinformation would be deliberate spread of false news to keep your enemy thinking and looking at wrong direction, i believe that @Khafee has been telling us a lot about good stuff while throwing a curve ball here and there to keep em guessing, kindly don't mind me saying that :)
 
TomCat

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baqai said:
disinformation would be deliberate spread of false news to keep your enemy thinking and looking at wrong direction, i believe that @Khafee has been telling us a lot about good stuff while throwing a curve ball here and there to keep em guessing, kindly don't mind me saying that :)
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Yes I believe
 
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