China Sells J-10 Fourth Generation Fighters to Pakistan

[Mingle]

Hi,

Big deal---. I had projected the J20 to pakistan some 5 years ago.

MK how are you doing? How is Ur health? ACM Sohail said there is no restriction from China about J20 procurement.They are available if PAF want's

 

[Mastankhan]

MK how are you doing? How is Ur health? ACM Sohail said there is no restriction from China about J20 procurement.They are available if PAF want's

Hi,

Doing fine thank you. Working like a sheep dog with no respite.

 

[Khafee]

Hi,

Doing fine thank you. Working like a sheep dog with no respite.

May Allah give you a long healthy & wealthy life, full of happiness.

 

[AliYusuf]

@messiach ma'am from the other forum has revealed that the J-10C's are coming with the Russian AL31 engines with ToT.

My query to all and sundry, and especially @Khafee Sb, why is it that Pakistan is pursuing an engine with lesser thrust and one which has a history of accidents ... compared to the WS-10B ... i.e. an engine that has a higher thrust and is more stable than the Russian one ... by a significant margin?

 

[Mastankhan]

@messiach ma'am from the other forum has revealed that the J-10C's are coming with the Russian AL31 engines with ToT.

My query to all and sundry, and especially @Khafee Sb, why is it that Pakistan is pursuing an engine with lesser thrust and one which has a history of accidents ... compared to the WS-10B ... i.e. an engine that has a higher thrust and is more stable than the Russian one ... by a significant margin?

Hi,

AL31 is a time tested engine.

 

[DHsquare]

This might has a hint towards the possibility of a Russian bird in future for commonality of engine type procurement & maintenance

 

[AliYusuf]

Hi,

AL31 is a time tested engine.

With considerably less thrust than the WS-10B.
Which has been powering the J-10C since 2019 without issues.
Strange.

 

[Scorpio]

@messiach ma'am from the other forum has revealed that the J-10C's are coming with the Russian AL31 engines with ToT.

My query to all and sundry, and especially @Khafee Sb, why is it that Pakistan is pursuing an engine with lesser thrust and one which has a history of accidents ... compared to the WS-10B ... i.e. an engine that has a higher thrust and is more stable than the Russian one ... by a significant margin?

Strange and interesting, if ture then mean it indicates as well that azm will have Russian engine

 

[baqai]

@messiach ma'am from the other forum has revealed that the J-10C's are coming with the Russian AL31 engines with ToT.

My query to all and sundry, and especially @Khafee Sb, why is it that Pakistan is pursuing an engine with lesser thrust and one which has a history of accidents ... compared to the WS-10B ... i.e. an engine that has a higher thrust and is more stable than the Russian one ... by a significant margin?

the biggest leap is the TOT one critical element where we have been lacking, can you imagine the doors we will open with this TOT

 

[AliYusuf]

the biggest leap is the TOT one critical element where we have been lacking, can you imagine the doors we will open with this TOT

That ToT will still not include the metallurgical secrets of forging the alloys from which the blades of the turbofans are made of. Just like they didn't share that part of the AL-31FP Thrust Vectored engines of the Su-30 MKI with the Indians. Any missing piece of the technology puzzle renders knowing the rest of the technology quite useless at the time of need. India has been making those engines for almost 2 decades. But the alloys for the blades come forged and prepared from Russia. If the Russians abandon the Indians today, HAL still won't be able to make a working engine. It will take HAL another couple of decades to make something even half as good as the original. Only a few countries know advanced metallurgy. They will not allow you just a cakewalk into their exclusive club of aviation engine manufacturers. And India has been making automobile engines for more than 5 decades. Us? We still cannot make automobile engines from scratch.

 

[War Historian]

the biggest leap is the TOT one critical element where we have been lacking, can you imagine the doors we will open with this TOT

If this news is not fake.

This TOT will start a new Era for Pakistan aviation specially for aero engine manufacturing. I know russians will not give us critical parts manufacturing technology. Even we will only assemble the russian engines. That would be good start in engine manufacturing.
Russian engines are not good as the American engines but the russian engines are much better than the Chinese one.
If we will continue this manufacturing and overhauling , in next decade we will reach 50% locally made parts. And in the mean time we can focus on crystal blades.
Gradually we can get the expertise. So one by one we will get manufacturing rights and training of our people. In next decade, We will raise new institution of education, training, R&D and manufacturing and customising to our client PAF's demand.

Rome was not built in a day.

 

[Cookie Monster]

@messiach ma'am from the other forum has revealed that the J-10C's are coming with the Russian AL31 engines with ToT.

My query to all and sundry, and especially @Khafee Sb, why is it that Pakistan is pursuing an engine with lesser thrust and one which has a history of accidents ... compared to the WS-10B ... i.e. an engine that has a higher thrust and is more stable than the Russian one ... by a significant margin?

There was another post earlier from @Khafee something along the lines of Pak requesting J15 with a Russian engine I think...
...at that time I asked why Pak would go with a Russian engine when J10 has WS10(and therefore J15 having WS10 would make more sense due to commonality).

...Madam Messiach has built her credibility...and it's not easy to disregard what she has to say. This development is puzzling since I thought that WS10 has become a mature design now(all Chinese jets switched to it). Moreover I thought Pak would most likely use China for cooperation on Azm NGF.

However with this development(per Messiach madam)...Russia will have involvement in Azm NGF(most likely in addition to China)...
...and in trying to make sense of this AL31 engine along with what @Khafee had said earlier(I gotta find that post)...it could be that J15 and J10 have AL31?
...this would solve commonality issue. It could also be to appease Russians...as they get a piece of the pie(sales) in the sale of a flanker design(J15) that was made by China. It would be appealing to Pak to get some ToT and rope the Russians in for development of Azm NGF as well...
...so kind of a win win for all 3 parties involved(Pak, Russia, China).

Personally I still would have preferred to have WS10 on all the aircrafts Pak is acquiring from China and I really hope that is the case. So that in case of war between India/Pak...
...in case of attrition...Pak can just acquire Chinese jets(J10/J15 and even other flankers)...having the same engine(and experience with it) to quickly be able to use them in the war effort.
...whereas having a Russian engine...Russia may create hurdles during war with India...or even if they don't...it takes away the commonality with Chinese jets...and may still cause delays.

 

[Khafee]

@messiach ma'am from the other forum has revealed that the J-10C's are coming with the Russian AL31 engines with ToT.

My query to all and sundry, and especially @Khafee Sb, why is it that Pakistan is pursuing an engine with lesser thrust and one which has a history of accidents ... compared to the WS-10B ... i.e. an engine that has a higher thrust and is more stable than the Russian one ... by a significant margin?

3 Platforms, one engine of different flavors, higher thrust

 

[TomCat]

3 Platforms, one engine of different flavors, higher thrust

Is it wise for Pakistan to depend on Russian engines for two of the most prominent platforms that will serve PAF for 2-3 decades ?
(Although Chinese engines are already on backup)

 

[Scorpio]

3

3 Platforms, one engine of different flavors, higher thrust

Platforms for same engine,
J10 , j15 what is the 3rd one?